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Issadore

Question for the Nagra aficionados...

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Hello all, I am new to posting in this forum (been reading it for quite a while). After reading the epic Nagra thread in the "Images" forum I concluded that this is the place with the most concentrated Nagra knowledge around. Which brings me to my question...

I recently acquired a very nice condition IVs (tc). I had been wanting one for years and this one for many reasons fit the bill. Everything seems to be working very well but nevertheless I am taking it down to Trew in Burbank later next month for a full service and calibration.  

I am trying to beautify it and have questions about cleaning the exterior parts. 

 

I read it is possible to polish the plastic lid so it is scratch free. Does anyone have any experience with this? There are no deep scratches but many small ones. I wonder what best practices for doing this would be. 

 

Also, in cleaning the exterior what would you recommend?

 

Finally, I am looking for a rugged but quality travel case other than the standard pelican. Maybe something more Nagra like and beautiful. An aluminum briefcase would be neat but they don't make them that large I suspect. Any creative ideas would be appreciated!

 

Thanks for the resourceful forum. 

 

Here is a picture of my new friend...

IMG_0149.JPG

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Very nice--looks quite clean.  When you have it checked ask the tech's opinion about the state of the big grey rubber gasket that runs all the way around the lid.  They deteriorate with time (Dan Dugan referred to the condition as "gasket cancer") and are hard to replace.   Did you get a manual with this machine?  I ask because the operation of the "TC" aspects of the IV-S-TC are not very intuitive, and having a cheatsheet really helps. 

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5 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

Very nice--looks quite clean.  When you have it checked ask the tech's opinion about the state of the big grey rubber gasket that runs all the way around the lid.  They deteriorate with time (Dan Dugan referred to the condition as "gasket cancer") and are hard to replace.   Did you get a manual with this machine?  I ask because the operation of the "TC" aspects of the IV-S-TC are not very intuitive, and having a cheatsheet really helps. 

 

 

Hi Phil, thanks for the reply. Yes, the machine came with a 1990 version of the manual so it is 1990 or later. For now I will be using it mostly for location music recording in stereo, so I don't nee the TC function yet...  The gasket seems to be very solid still (aside from some discoloration). I will ask the tech at Trew to be sure though.  

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Great machine!

If you are not using the TC capabilities, you might completely disable the recording of TC, so that you don´t get any TC bleed into the audio. Normally it is not a problem, but if you can hear any TC at all, it is quite easy to disable it (i a non-destructive and reversible way). It is described in the service manual; tell me if you need a scan of it...

 

I have not been polishing any lids myself yet, but a very knowledgeable german Nagra owner gave me a description of how to do it:

 

"Also for clear lids I have the same results with "UNIPOL" and a very soft towel. This gives  very good results

Here is the link to Amazon
https://www.amazon.de/Unipol-Metal-Polish-Pflegemittel-Metalle-1000ml/dp/B0056EW4IQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504464910&sr=8-1&keywords=unipol+polierpaste

I use  a PROXON device to do the job

https://www.amazon.de/Proxxon-Winkelpolierer-WP-E-28660/dp/B00JVT00JM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504464981&sr=8-1&keywords=proxxon+poliermaschine"

 

It is an excerpt of a mail, in the rest he says that the machine polisher gives a much better result, but if a towel w. polishing creme is used, be sure to do it slowly and always keep moving. And never press...

 

But if you take it to Trew Audio, I am sure that you will get all your questions answered...

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From the photo, the lid looks pretty good as it is. But if you seek improvement, you can use the same plastic polishing technique you would employ on headlamp covers. Griots Garage has plastic polish that can be used with a microfiber cloth. For best results, get one of their small random orbit polishers and a pad (they Velcro attach) designated for plastic. The polisher will set you back about $100 but you’ll find other applications. 

 

David

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36 minutes ago, dela said:

Great machine!

If you are not using the TC capabilities, you might completely disable the recording of TC, so that you don´t get any TC bleed into the audio. Normally it is not a problem, but if you can hear any TC at all, it is quite easy to disable it (i a non-destructive and reversible way). It is described in the service manual; tell me if you need a scan of it...

 

I have not been polishing any lids myself yet, but a very knowledgeable german Nagra owner gave me a description of how to do it:

 

"Also for clear lids I have the same results with "UNIPOL" and a very soft towel. This gives  very good results

Here is the link to Amazon
https://www.amazon.de/Unipol-Metal-Polish-Pflegemittel-Metalle-1000ml/dp/B0056EW4IQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504464910&sr=8-1&keywords=unipol+polierpaste

I use  a PROXON device to do the job

https://www.amazon.de/Proxxon-Winkelpolierer-WP-E-28660/dp/B00JVT00JM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1504464981&sr=8-1&keywords=proxxon+poliermaschine"

 

It is an excerpt of a mail, in the rest he says that the machine polisher gives a much better result, but if a towel w. polishing creme is used, be sure to do it slowly and always keep moving. And never press...

 

But if you take it to Trew Audio, I am sure that you will get all your questions answered...

 

 

 

 

Thank you for the great info dela! I have been trying to figure out how to disable TC for that reason. I can't hear any now but better to be safe. I would very much appreciate if you could send me a PDF of the shop manual if you have it. If not, just a scan of the page describing disabling timecode would be fantastic. Thank you!  I will investigate the polish described, thank you for sharing that. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

23 minutes ago, David Waelder said:

From the photo, the lid looks pretty good as it is. But if you seek improvement, you can use the same plastic polishing technique you would employ on headlamp covers. Griots Garage has plastic polish that can be used with a microfiber cloth. For best results, get one of their small random orbit polishers and a pad (they Velcro attach) designated for plastic. The polisher will set you back about $100 but you’ll find other applications. 

 

David

 

Thank you David for this information. Yes, the photo doesn't really show all the fine swirls and scratches but they are there. Thank you for the idea of the orbital as well. 

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9 hours ago, Issadore said:

Finally, I am looking for a rugged but quality travel case other than the standard pelican. Maybe something more Nagra like and beautiful. An aluminum briefcase would be neat but they don't make them that large I suspect. Any creative ideas would be appreciated!

 

B-premier.jpg?1527199749

 

 

 

 

cat-Camera.jpg?1527199749

 

 

cat-ONPARE.jpg?1527199749

 

https://zerohalliburton.com/collections/camera-technical-cases/

 

http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/20963-great-service-on-custom-cut-foam-from-mycasebuildercom/

 

http://jwsoundgroup.net/index.php?/topic/26721-rack-drawer-custom-foam/&do=findComment&comment=309064

 

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Wow, those Halliburton cases are amazing! Definitely belong with the Nagra. I also love the idea of the custom cut foam to hold it. Thanks or the excellent recommendation mono! 

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The Halliburton cases are elegant. They are typically clear anodized aluminum, a silver-color finish, but they are also available painted black and some sizes offer (or used to) a gold-tone anodized finish. 

 

There is a caveat - beyond a price considerably higher than Pelican cases. My experience is that the larger sizes are easily deformed by the weight of the contents. It’s not such an acute problem that the case would look odd but it can flex enough that latches don’t easily line up. A Nagra isn’t so large but people often purchase a case large enough to also fit an AC power supply or other accessories. With a Halliburton, I would advise purchasing a case just large enough to fit the recorder plus, of course, an inch or inch-and-half for the foam. 

 

One real positive - they have a lifetime warranty. If a latch fails, they’ll send a replacement without question. 

 

David

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Hallies were the industry standard when I started in the biz, very expensive, very common.  As elegant as they are, they are actually a terrible shipping case, esp for air travel.  As was said--the corners will dent at the first drop, and the case will deform enough that it won't close, let alone seal.  They have to be treated like fine luggage.  If you want to ship your Nagra, or even use it in the field, I'd advise a modern case (Pelican etc).  Much has been learned about equipment caseology since Halliburton came along....

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24 minutes ago, David Waelder said:

The Halliburton cases are elegant. They are typically clear anodized aluminum, a silver-color finish, but they are also available painted black and some sizes offer (or used to) a gold-tone anodized finish. 

 

There is a caveat - beyond a price considerably higher than Pelican cases. My experience is that the larger sizes are easily deformed by the weight of the contents. It’s not such an acute problem that the case would look odd but it can flex enough that latches don’t easily line up. A Nagra isn’t so large but people often purchase a case large enough to also fit an AC power supply or other accessories. With a Halliburton, I would advise purchasing a case just large enough to fit the recorder plus, of course, an inch or inch-and-half for the foam. 

 

One real positive - they have a lifetime warranty. If a latch fails, they’ll send a replacement without question. 

 

David

 

Thank you for the info. Yeah, they are real pricey but they look great. Regarding what Philip said about them getting dented up real easy, I looked on eBay and most of the used ones were all dented! Thanks you both for the pointers on these cases. I might have to go with a pelican I guess. They just look so meh to me. That said, they certainly are rugged as hell! Maybe the Nanuk is a little more low profile and less bulky. I will have to keep researching..

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52 minutes ago, Philip Perkins said:

As elegant as they are, they are actually a terrible shipping case, esp for air travel. . . They have to be treated like fine luggage. 

 

 

cat-History.jpg?1527199749

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Thanks mono- pelican air looks interesting. Maybe not so bulky. I actually have an old Kangaroo bag that fits it, so I am good in the field work department. 

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Just now, dela said:

Great machine!

If you are not using the TC capabilities, you might completely disable the recording of TC, so that you don´t get any TC bleed into the audio. Normally it is not a problem, but if you can hear any TC at all, it is quite easy to disable it (i a non-destructive and reversible way). It is described in the service manual; tell me if you need a scan of it...

Just now, Issadore said:

 

Thank you for the great info dela! I have been trying to figure out how to disable TC for that reason. I can't hear any now but better to be safe. I would very much appreciate if you could send me a PDF of the shop manual if you have it. If not, just a scan of the page describing disabling timecode would be fantastic. Thank you!  I will investigate the polish described, thank you for sharing that. 

 

 

 

My first comment was also going to be what Dela said. My IV is not TC but since the TC is just recorded on the centre CUE track you will be able to just bypass/block the TC by "feeding" another track of silence onto this track ... not at home to look for the actual connector but it's one of the tuchels on the side. It might be as simple as screwing or unscrewing the jumper tuchel plug that's on the machine (look in the manual for 'CUE track' and it should explain it all).

 

Regarding those nice cases ... why not get the Halliburton and then a larger Pelican to fit the Halliburton with the Nagra inside for air travel? If you get a large enough Pelican it can take not only the case with the Nagra but additional accessories like power supply, cables, extra batteries and even just lead shot or similar extra ballast. (Note to self - if you have nothing constructive to say ...)

 

Best, Jez

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38 minutes ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

 

My first comment was also going to be what Dela said. My IV is not TC but since the TC is just recorded on the centre CUE track you will be able to just bypass/block the TC by "feeding" another track of silence onto this track ... not at home to look for the actual connector but it's one of the tuchels on the side. It might be as simple as screwing or unscrewing the jumper tuchel plug that's on the machine (look in the manual for 'CUE track' and it should explain it all).

 

Regarding those nice cases ... why not get the Halliburton and then a larger Pelican to fit the Halliburton with the Nagra inside for air travel? If you get a large enough Pelican it can take not only the case with the Nagra but additional accessories like power supply, cables, extra batteries and even just lead shot or similar extra ballast. (Note to self - if you have nothing constructive to say ...)

 

Best, Jez

I really liked my Halliburton - most of all, as it was so light for kit case but you probably would want to protect the investment in this case with a pelican or similar :-). The handles and latches break easily because they are not recessed and the the 2 aluminium shells the case is made of, are thin enough to puncture quite easily imho (although I've not tried). Not waterproof like a peli either. These days they seem to be marketed more as luxury luggage than seriously protective.

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3 hours ago, The Immoral Mr Teas said:

 

My first comment was also going to be what Dela said. My IV is not TC but since the TC is just recorded on the centre CUE track you will be able to just bypass/block the TC by "feeding" another track of silence onto this track ... not at home to look for the actual connector but it's one of the tuchels on the side. It might be as simple as screwing or unscrewing the jumper tuchel plug that's on the machine (look in the manual for 'CUE track' and it should explain it all).

 

Regarding those nice cases ... why not get the Halliburton and then a larger Pelican to fit the Halliburton with the Nagra inside for air travel? If you get a large enough Pelican it can take not only the case with the Nagra but additional accessories like power supply, cables, extra batteries and even just lead shot or similar extra ballast. (Note to self - if you have nothing constructive to say ...)

 

Best, Jez

 

 

Hi Jez,

I looked in the manual in the cue track section. It would appear that you can set the TC input to external which is tuchel but it looks for TC and presents an error if there is none. Being able to use a jumper would be great. I would like the simplest way to disable TC but bring it back later if necessary. It looks like removing the TC board would require unsoldering the ground wire... I would love a simpler way if there is one. 

 

Also, great idea about the case in the case. The peli for flight and the Hali for street. A class act! 

Thanks for all these great suggestions guys. I am ever grateful for your wisdom. 

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FWIW, I read that Halliburton cases were specifically made to deform in the case (sorry!) of impact to adsorb the shock and protect the contents.  I actually have a bunch of Halliburton cases that still travel with me and protect the contents, mostly microphones, including a briefcase that I have had since my rock and roll touring days in the 1970s and 1980s.  Still works fine, but doesn't see a lot of use lately , holding a studio-style headphone distribution mixer that rarely gets used for the work I do now.

 

Road-warriors!

 

D.

IMG_5785.JPG

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Just now, Issadore said:

Hi Jez,

I looked in the manual in the cue track section. It would appear that you can set the TC input to external which is tuchel but it looks for TC and presents an error if there is none. Being able to use a jumper would be great. I would like the simplest way to disable TC but bring it back later if necessary. It looks like removing the TC board would require unsoldering the ground wire... I would love a simpler way if there is one. 

 

Also, great idea about the case in the case. The peli for flight and the Hali for street. A class act! 

Thanks for all these great suggestions guys. I am ever grateful for your wisdom. 

 

I may be wrong (I've never used the TC Nagra) but (for other Nagra IV users out there...) was not the TC just recorded onto the cue track (as per the Harvey etc mods before the IVTC came out) ?

 

If so, surely it was expected to sometimes use the CUE track not for the new TC option but for an old fashioned pulse track (if post/transfer couldn't handle TC) or even it's other 'main use' as a 3rd track (for verbal notes etc) ?

 

I would be very surprised if you couldn't just bypass the TC feed by inserting a 'audio' input signal into the CUE (and just make this 'audio signal' inaudible = silence).

 

The CUE tuchel on the IV-S comes with a jumper plug fitted? Might it be the same or similar on the IVS-TC (ignoring completely a separate TC connection - presumably LEMO) ? Please someone chirp in who knows the machine better - I don't have access to my Nagras or manuals at the moment.

 

 

(Oh - and btw, my other suggestion was a lame joke ... damn English humour ...)

 

Jez

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i Jez,

I am still trying to figure this out. I found an old thread quoted below regarding the jumper. 

 

From a previous post from Glen Trew: Nagra's timecode version of the IV-S(TC) did not require the jumper plug to record timecode to the center track.

 

It does have a cue track input as well as a LEMO separate TC track. I have a tC resolver device that plugs into these ports. I tried plugging them in and recording to see if it nulled the internal TC generator but TC was still recorded to the track. 

 

Sorry, I am a Nagra newbie so I am probably missing something obvious. Any suggestions?

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