jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Hallo, hello, hola et bonjour, I am looking for a mixer/recorder model where I can actively change the stereo width, when I record MS stereo - (Just like with the SQN models, where you close your second fader, when you want a mono signal in your mix) - and have the ISO tracks recorded separately at the same time. Is there a model that can do this? Thank you! Jule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mungo Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Hi! You can use the trim knob of the 2nd MS linked channel for that on Sound Devices 633/664/688. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Thank you. Yes, true. But they are the trims. I am currently working with a SD633 and I find this dissatisfying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 What happens with the pan pot of the first input of an MS pair of a 633? Also, you could probably leave the inputs unlinked and instead choose MS in your headphone presets. Then when you turn the fader of the second input it should in- or decrease the stereo width, while leaving the Isos alone. I think MS is a global headphone setting so it will convert all signal you hear in your cans, however I haven’t tried that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimP Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 With a Cantar X3 and Cantar Mini you can adjust the stereo width with the fader panel when assigning the faders as tracks. I change the MS width like this all the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 26 minutes ago, Constantin said: What happens with the pan pot of the first input of an MS pair of a 633? The pan pot of the first channel controls the proportion of the first two channels in the mix, the second pan pot does not change the width. 26 minutes ago, Constantin said: Also, you could probably leave the inputs unlinked and instead choose MS in your headphone presets. Then when you turn the fader of the second input it should in- or decrease the stereo width, while leaving the Isos alone. I think MS is a global headphone setting so it will convert all signal you hear in your cans, however I haven’t tried that. That is a possibility for the case one does not want the MS signal processed to LR, true. 25 minutes ago, TimP said: With a Cantar X3 and Cantar Mini you can adjust the stereo width with the fader panel when assigning the faders as tracks. I change the MS width like this all the time. And my tracks are L and R - or they are still MS then? And if they are L and R, will I still habe the unprocessed MS as ISOs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Manzke Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 7 minutes ago, Jule said: The pan pot of the first channel controls the proportion of the first two channels in the mix, the second pan pot does not change the width Haven't done any MS on the 633, but does the odd pan pot alter the proportion between mid and side signal? In that case this should be the solution to the stereo width (or does it alter the position of the overall MS signal in the panorama instead?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 (edited) On 5/28/2018 at 9:17 PM, Michael Manzke said: Haven't done any MS on the 633, but does the odd pan pot alter the proportion between mid and side signal? In that case this should be the solution to the stereo width (or does it alter the position of the overall MS signal in the panorama instead?) Tho odd pan does nothing on the 633, when you use MS linking in the input menu. Edit: Sorry, I mixed up "odd" and "even", because this is a second language to me. Edited October 30, 2018 by Jule Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimP Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 22 minutes ago, Jule said: And my tracks are L and R - or they are still MS then? And if they are L and R, will I still habe the unprocessed MS as ISOs? The ISO's are MS (unprocessed), mixdown (output, headphone, whatever you like) is LR with variable width if you choose to do so. If for example ISO track 1 and 2 are MS, and you assign these tracks to the first and second fader (or whichever one you prefer..) The second fader controls the width. (Thinking of it, I'm not sure if this is also the way it works on the Cantar Mini. It does with an X3.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 minute ago, TimP said: The ISO's are MS (unprocessed), mixdown (output, headphone, whatever you like) is LR with variable width if you choose to do so. If for example ISO track 1 and 2 are MS, and you assign these tracks to the first and second fader (or whichever one you prefer..) The second fader controls the width. (Thinking of it, I'm not sure if this is also the way it works on the Cantar Mini. It does with an X3.) This sounds good! The X3 unfortunately is not my wingspan, I'll inform myself about the Cantar Mini, thank you! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwback Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, TimP said: The ISO's are MS (unprocessed), mixdown (output, headphone, whatever you like) is LR with variable width if you choose to do so. If for example ISO track 1 and 2 are MS, and you assign these tracks to the first and second fader (or whichever one you prefer..) The second fader controls the width. (Thinking of it, I'm not sure if this is also the way it works on the Cantar Mini. It does with an X3.) And it's the same with the Sound Devices MixPre-series recorders with the latest firmware. Cheers, Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OnTheSoundSideOfLife Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 There are two options on the 744T (it's probably similiar with the 6 series) 1. You set your monitoring to 1, 2 MS. The first knob controls the mid gain, the second the side gain. You hear the encoded result in a 50/50 ratio and can adjust the width by turning any of two knobs up or down. You get isos in the end tho. 2. You set "linking MS" and Monitoring to 1, 2. The first knob controls the overall gain of the encoded signal, the second the width. You get encoded LR in the end. But you cannot record isos and the encoded version at the same time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 Just now, OnTheSoundSideOfLife said: There are two options on the 744T (it's probably similiar with the 6 series) 1. You set your monitoring to 1, 2 MS. The first knob controls the mid gain, the second the side gain. You hear the encoded result in a 50/50 ratio and can adjust the width by turning any of two knobs up or down. You get isos in the end tho. 2. You set "linking MS" and Monitoring to 1, 2. The first knob controls the overall gain of the encoded signal, the second the width. You get encoded LR in the end. But you cannot record isos and the encoded version at the same time. Negative. 6 series is different to the 7 series. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 38 minutes ago, Jule said: Tho odd pan does nothing on the 633, when you use MS linking in the input menu. Sorry, I mixed up "odd" and "even", because this is a second language to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constantin Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 52 minutes ago, Jule said: The pan pot of the first channel controls the proportion of the first two channels in the mix, the second pan pot does not change the width. But the first channel fader (also?) control the mix portion. What’s the difference between fader and pan in the MS scenario on a 633? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 2 minutes ago, Constantin said: But the first channel fader (also?) control the mix portion. What’s the difference between fader and pan in the MS scenario on a 633? No, the first fader controls your first two channels in the mix, but if you want to change the side signal, you have to move the trim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 hi I think what you want it's provided from aeta on the mixy (3 chnls analog digital mixer ) The outer concentric control (of channel 2) provides +/-5dB adjustment of the balance in L/R mode (normal stereo), or the stereo width in M/S mode http://www.aeta-audio.com/fileadmin/downloads/pdf_uk/manual_mixy.pdf on the aeta 4 minx 6dB on the fader 2 http://www.aeta-audio.com/fileadmin/downloads/pdf_uk/manual_4MinX.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 5 minutes ago, Rafael said: hi I think what youwant its provided from aeta I am not made for the AETA, unfortunately. I tried, the menu blows my brain. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rafael Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Jule said: I am not made for the AETA, unfortunately. I tried, the menu blows my brain. 😂 true true but sounds like no other the mixer it's also an small option Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 28, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 1 minute ago, Rafael said: 😂 true true but sounds like no other the mixer it's also an small option It does sound superb! No question about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwback Posted May 28, 2018 Report Share Posted May 28, 2018 So are you ruling out the MixPre-series, which (since last week's firmware 2.20 update) can do exactly what you want in regard to MS? But perhaps they lack other functionality you need? Cheers, Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jbuerjes Posted May 29, 2018 Author Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 5 hours ago, Throwback said: So are you ruling out the MixPre-series, which (since last week's firmware 2.20 update) can do exactly what you want in regard to MS? But perhaps they lack other functionality you need? Sorry, no, I am not ruling out the PreMix-series, I am just unsure what this series can do for me with pre-fade-listening and some other features. (I know the series provides pre-fade-listening, I am just unsure, how deep in the menu behind the screen I'd have to look or fumble for this). And I was just not able to follow the different features (provided with different firmwares) in the 3/6/10 machines. I am sure it is a useful recorder, I am not so sure about it being a useful mixing device. But that is just my impression. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 Kinda running out of options; at least for what's commonly available here in the US. Here's the list from one dealer that carries a lot of the key brands: https://www.trewaudio.com/product-category/recorders/field-recorders/ Have you looked into Zaxcom's recorders and Nagra's latest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throwback Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 4 hours ago, Jule said: Sorry, no, I am not ruling out the PreMix-series, I am just unsure what this series can do for me with pre-fade-listening and some other features. (I know the series provides pre-fade-listening, I am just unsure, how deep in the menu behind the screen I'd have to look or fumble for this). And I was just not able to follow the different features (provided with different firmwares) in the 3/6/10 machines. I am sure it is a useful recorder, I am not so sure about it being a useful mixing device. But that is just my impression. To change headphone preset (e.g. from post-fade LR to pre-fade MS decoded) requires three taps of the screen; ditto if you want to change to a different overall preset. I agree that an updated manual incorporating the changes to the firmware would be useful and hope that SD have this in mind: it's rather odd that the manual hasn't been updated with each firmware update where the functionality has changed. Whether or not the MixPre-series recorders provide sufficient mixing capability for your use is, of course, for you to decide: what is clear is that they provide the MS options that you set out in your original post, and have very capable preamps too. Cheers, Roland Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Csaba Major Posted May 29, 2018 Report Share Posted May 29, 2018 SDmixpre with new firmware? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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