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Mixer/recorder - changing the stereo width


jbuerjes

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Hallo, hello, hola et bonjour,

 

I am looking for a mixer/recorder model where I can actively change the stereo width, when I record MS stereo - (Just like with the SQN models, where you close your second fader, when you want a mono signal in your mix) -

and have the ISO tracks recorded separately at the same time.

Is there a model that can do this?

Thank you!

Jule

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What happens with the pan pot of the first input of an MS pair of a 633? 

 

Also, you could probably leave the inputs unlinked and instead choose MS in your headphone presets. Then when you turn the fader of the second input it should in- or decrease the stereo width, while leaving the Isos alone. I think MS is a global headphone setting so it will convert all signal you hear in your cans, however I haven’t tried that. 

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26 minutes ago, Constantin said:

What happens with the pan pot of the first input of an MS pair of a 633? 

The pan pot of the first channel controls the proportion of the first two channels in the mix, the second pan pot does not change the width. 

 

26 minutes ago, Constantin said:

Also, you could probably leave the inputs unlinked and instead choose MS in your headphone presets. Then when you turn the fader of the second input it should in- or decrease the stereo width, while leaving the Isos alone. I think MS is a global headphone setting so it will convert all signal you hear in your cans, however I haven’t tried that. 

That is a possibility for the case one does not want the MS signal processed to LR, true.

 

25 minutes ago, TimP said:

With a Cantar X3 and Cantar Mini you can adjust the stereo width with the fader panel when assigning the faders as tracks. I change the MS width like this all the time.

And my tracks are L and R - or they are still MS then? And if they are L and R, will I still habe the unprocessed MS as ISOs?

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7 minutes ago, Jule said:

The pan pot of the first channel controls the proportion of the first two channels in the mix, the second pan pot does not change the width

Haven't done any MS on the 633, but does the odd pan pot alter the proportion between mid and side signal? In that case this should be the solution to the stereo width (or does it alter the position of the overall MS signal in the panorama instead?)

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On 5/28/2018 at 9:17 PM, Michael Manzke said:

Haven't done any MS on the 633, but does the odd pan pot alter the proportion between mid and side signal? In that case this should be the solution to the stereo width (or does it alter the position of the overall MS signal in the panorama instead?)

Tho odd pan does nothing on the 633, when you use MS linking in the input menu.

 

Edit: Sorry, I mixed up "odd" and "even", because this is a second language to me.

Edited by Jule
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22 minutes ago, Jule said:

 

And my tracks are L and R - or they are still MS then? And if they are L and R, will I still habe the unprocessed MS as ISOs?

The ISO's are MS (unprocessed), mixdown (output, headphone, whatever you like) is LR with variable width if you choose to do so. If for example ISO track 1 and 2 are MS, and you assign these tracks to the first and second fader (or whichever one you prefer..) The second fader controls the width. (Thinking of it, I'm not sure if this is also the way it works on the Cantar Mini. It does with an X3.)

 

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1 minute ago, TimP said:

The ISO's are MS (unprocessed), mixdown (output, headphone, whatever you like) is LR with variable width if you choose to do so. If for example ISO track 1 and 2 are MS, and you assign these tracks to the first and second fader (or whichever one you prefer..) The second fader controls the width. (Thinking of it, I'm not sure if this is also the way it works on the Cantar Mini. It does with an X3.)

 

This sounds good! The X3 unfortunately is not my wingspan, I'll inform myself about the Cantar Mini, thank you!

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2 minutes ago, TimP said:

The ISO's are MS (unprocessed), mixdown (output, headphone, whatever you like) is LR with variable width if you choose to do so. If for example ISO track 1 and 2 are MS, and you assign these tracks to the first and second fader (or whichever one you prefer..) The second fader controls the width. (Thinking of it, I'm not sure if this is also the way it works on the Cantar Mini. It does with an X3.)

 

And it's the same with the Sound Devices MixPre-series recorders with the latest firmware.

 

Cheers,

 

Roland

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There are two options on the 744T (it's probably similiar with the 6 series)

 

1. You set your monitoring to 1, 2 MS. The first knob controls the mid gain, the second the side gain. You hear the encoded result in a 50/50 ratio and can adjust the width by turning any of two knobs up or down. You get isos in the end tho.

 

2. You set "linking MS" and Monitoring to 1, 2. The first knob controls the overall gain of the encoded signal, the second the width. You get encoded LR in the end.

 

But you cannot record isos and the encoded version at the same time.

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Just now, OnTheSoundSideOfLife said:

There are two options on the 744T (it's probably similiar with the 6 series)

 

1. You set your monitoring to 1, 2 MS. The first knob controls the mid gain, the second the side gain. You hear the encoded result in a 50/50 ratio and can adjust the width by turning any of two knobs up or down. You get isos in the end tho.

 

2. You set "linking MS" and Monitoring to 1, 2. The first knob controls the overall gain of the encoded signal, the second the width. You get encoded LR in the end.

 

But you cannot record isos and the encoded version at the same time.

 

Negative. 6 series is different to the 7 series.

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52 minutes ago, Jule said:

The pan pot of the first channel controls the proportion of the first two channels in the mix, the second pan pot does not change the width. 

 

But the first channel fader (also?) control the mix portion. What’s the difference between fader and pan in the MS scenario on a 633?

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2 minutes ago, Constantin said:

 

But the first channel fader (also?) control the mix portion. What’s the difference between fader and pan in the MS scenario on a 633?

No, the first fader controls your first two channels in the mix, but if you want to change the side signal, you have to move the trim.

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hi
I think what you want it's provided from aeta

on the mixy (3 chnls analog digital mixer )
The outer concentric control
(of channel 2) provides
+/-5dB adjustment of the
balance in L/R mode (normal stereo),
or the stereo width in M/S mode

http://www.aeta-audio.com/fileadmin/downloads/pdf_uk/manual_mixy.pdf


on the aeta 4 minx 6dB on the fader 2

http://www.aeta-audio.com/fileadmin/downloads/pdf_uk/manual_4MinX.pdf

 

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5 hours ago, Throwback said:

So are you ruling out the MixPre-series, which (since last week's firmware 2.20 update) can do exactly what you want in regard to MS? But perhaps they lack other functionality you need?

 

Sorry, no, I am not ruling out the PreMix-series, I am just unsure what this series can do for me with pre-fade-listening and some other features. (I know the series provides pre-fade-listening, I am just unsure, how deep in the menu behind the screen I'd have to look or fumble for this). And I was just not able to follow the different features (provided with different firmwares) in the 3/6/10 machines. I am sure it is a useful recorder, I am not so sure about it being a useful mixing device. But that is just my impression.

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4 hours ago, Jule said:

 

Sorry, no, I am not ruling out the PreMix-series, I am just unsure what this series can do for me with pre-fade-listening and some other features. (I know the series provides pre-fade-listening, I am just unsure, how deep in the menu behind the screen I'd have to look or fumble for this). And I was just not able to follow the different features (provided with different firmwares) in the 3/6/10 machines. I am sure it is a useful recorder, I am not so sure about it being a useful mixing device. But that is just my impression.

 

To change headphone preset (e.g. from post-fade LR to pre-fade MS decoded) requires three taps of the screen; ditto if you want to change to a different overall preset. I agree that an updated manual incorporating the changes to the firmware would be useful and hope that SD have this in mind: it's rather odd that the manual hasn't been updated with each firmware update where the functionality has changed.

 

Whether or not the MixPre-series recorders provide sufficient mixing capability for your use is, of course, for you to decide: what is clear is that they provide the MS options that you set out in your original post, and have very capable preamps too.

 

Cheers,

 

Roland

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