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Mr Morisato

Cardiod Microphones

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New member here,

 

I need some help deciding what cardiod microphone to buy for my new Sony PXW-Z90 XDCAM Camcorder.  I need to buy an external microphone for filming sports events such as football matches outdoor,  of course I will be buying myself a zeppelin or blimp to house the microphone (to protect against wind noise) and my budget for this is up to about £250 for the microphone.  I've already done some research on what to look for and will also consider buying a dynamic microphone if need be.  Are there any outstanding popular choices for this purpose?  When I was at University studying for my Digital Film production degree I had access to the sennheiser K6/ME66 shotgun super-cardiod microphone however, I do not wish to buy a shotgun mic if I can avoid it as this model is a bit long (10-12 inches in length) I will prefer buying a mic thats under 6 inches in length if possible (so a short cardiod mic is preferred)

 

Thanx.

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If you're trying to acquire nat sound at a distance, then you really do have to go with a longer shotgun. I'd recommend a Sennheiser 416 or similar. It's got a decent enough range and provides good detail and is still light enough to not be a hindrance to you in a handheld situation. I also like the Sennheiser MKH-60. Shorter shotguns just don't have the range to do sports events, imo. Hope this helps.

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16 hours ago, Mr Morisato said:

New member here,

 

I need some help deciding what cardiod microphone to buy for my new Sony PXW-Z90 XDCAM Camcorder.  I need to buy an external microphone for filming sports events such as football matches outdoor,  of course I will be buying myself a zeppelin or blimp to house the microphone (to protect against wind noise) and my budget for this is up to about £250 for the microphone.  I've already done some research on what to look for and will also consider buying a dynamic microphone if need be.  Are there any outstanding popular choices for this purpose?  When I was at University studying for my Digital Film production degree I had access to the sennheiser K6/ME66 shotgun super-cardiod microphone however, I do not wish to buy a shotgun mic if I can avoid it as this model is a bit long (10-12 inches in length) I will prefer buying a mic thats under 6 inches in length if possible (so a short cardiod mic is preferred)

 

Thanx.

250GBP is about $330 usd. It's kind of difficult to recommend anything at that price point. The Sennheiser 416 sells for $1000 here.

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Recommendation: Audio Technica AT875R and of course a matching Rycote fur.

Very much mike for the money.

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The Z90 has XLR inputs, IIRC. If so, then like Mungo says, the AT875R seems to get some love from people with your budget. It's about 7-inches (that's about 180mm, right?) long, the internet says. I've heard tracks recorded on that mic and my sense is those tracks were nicer sounding than tracks from the ME66, a microphone that I've never liked.

 

If you go to dvxuser.com, you can probably find a bunch more people who'll have suggestions for mics at that point.

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I concur with Mungo and Jim, a lot of folks over on the DVx and DVi audio groups like the low budget priced Audio Technica AT875R, Another budget priced option is a pre-owned AT4073, ( if one can be found) which has about the hottest output (70mV) of all the short shotgun mics, which is important for preamps with minimal gain. But like the AT 875R, needs Phantom Power (11-52V).

Addendum: The AT897 has a internal battery option, if Phantom Pwr is not available.

Edited by Rick Reineke
Addendum

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8 hours ago, Eric Toline said:

250GBP is about $330 usd. It's kind of difficult to recommend anything at that price point. The Sennheiser 416 sells for $1000 here.

 

Thank you for your reply.

 

Being new to this profession I'm only just seeing how expensive a good microphone can be....the Sennheiser k6/ME66 is about £650 combined which is a level that I do not want to go to however, if there is a mic that fits my bill I will buy it regardless of price (my apologies if you do not understand my turn of phrase)

7 hours ago, Ty Ford said:

Does your camera have a 1/8" stereo TRS input jack?

 

Here's my review of the Audio Technica AT8024.

https://tyfordaudiovideo.blogspot.com/2017/07/audio-technica-at8024-good-things-in.html

 

Here's an AT8024 in use at a local Community Input Meeting.  

Regards,

 

Ty Ford

 

 

 

There is a 1/8" stereo input jack on the Z90 (I do not yet understand TRS) however, I'm only looking at microphones with an XLR connector.

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5 hours ago, IronFilm said:

At such a very low budget I'd think the Deity S Mic 2 shotgun is your best choice. 

 

This is a hyper/super cardiod microphone?

 

I've seen the youtube video online and looks impressive for its design and price band however, I came to the conclusion that I need/or would be best suited with a cardiod microphone because a) I do not wish to hear myself whilst I stand behind my tripod filming and, b) as I'm rotating the tripod left and right to follow the track of the ball I want to pick up the noises from the surrounding crowd and players.  I understand that any short rifle shotguns or condenser mics are never going to be ideal for this but, I dont want a long microphone attached to my Sony Z90 camcorder that will be housed in a zeppelin while I shoot - there'll just too much long snouty nose for my liking :(

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2 hours ago, Mr Morisato said:

 

 

"There is a 1/8" stereo input jack on the Z90 (I do not yet understand TRS) however, I'm only looking at microphones with an XLR connector."

TRS stands for Tip, Ring, Sleeve. Same connector that's used on your head phones. the Tip is the positive or the left channel on HP's. the Ring is the negative or the Right channel on HP's and the sleeve is the common ground for both channels. TRS microphone input connectors do not supply 48v phantom power for microphones that need it to work properly.

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3 hours ago, Mr Morisato said:

Being new to this profession I'm only just seeing how expensive a good microphone can be....the Sennheiser k6/ME66 is about £650 combined which is a level that I do not want to go to however, if there is a mic that fits my bill I will buy it regardless of price (my apologies if you do not understand my turn of phrase)

I had the ME66, brought it as an "upgrade" (so I thought) to the NTG2 I started out with. 
Never was really impressed with it, and I never use it now. 
It is a mic for videographers or student soundies.

2 hours ago, Mr Morisato said:

a) I do not wish to hear myself whilst I stand behind my tripod filming

There is a solution here: do not make noise!!!
I really do think the best choice for you who is just solo filming soccer matches with a low budget camcorder would be an affordable short shotgun such as the Deity S Mic 2 shotgun.

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14 minutes ago, IronFilm said:

I really do think the best choice for you who is just solo filming soccer matches with a low budget camcorder would be an affordable short shotgun such as the Deity S Mic 2 shotgun.

 

Looks like that microphone is pretty long for mounting on a camcorder, and longer than the OP is looking for:

https://www.deitymic.com/smic2/

Length 9.84″ / 250 mm

 

Also, is that mic available yet? Here's one place that seems to suggest that it's not yet out (at least not here in the US):

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/smic-shotgun-microphone

 

Buy

This item is in pre-order.

Expected Release: July 2018

PRICE:$359.00

 

Anyone here have hands-on experience with it?

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Although if you're obsessed with the very small size, and don't care spending a bit more, than the Sanken CS1e is popular with some camera ops. 
Plus there is the new CS-M1 which is even smaller!
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/791331-REG/Sanken_CS_1E_CS_1e_Short_Shotgun_Microphone.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1404643-REG/sanken_cs_m1_super_cardioid_short.html

But the size really shouldn't be a super big deal for you, you're on a tripod after all!!

Another extreme super miniature shotgun that cam ops like is the one from Ambient Recording:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/327459-REG/Ambient_Recording_ATM216_TinyMike_Compact_Directional.html

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1028982-REG/ambient_recording_atm216_ph_tiny_mike.html

 

 

http://www.dvuser.co.uk/content.php?CID=162

 

 

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56 minutes ago, Jim Feeley said:

Looks like that microphone is pretty long for mounting on a camcorder, and longer than the OP is looking for:

https://www.deitymic.com/smic2/

Length 9.84″ / 250 mm

 

It is just normal short shotgun length, same as say the ME66 that the OP is also considering. 
 

56 minutes ago, Jim Feeley said:

Also, is that mic available yet? Here's one place that seems to suggest that it's not yet out (at least not here in the US):

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/smic-shotgun-microphone

 

Buy

This item is in pre-order.

Expected Release: July 2018

PRICE:$359.00

 

Anyone here have hands-on experience with it?


Is only days or so away from being publicly available. I'll have mine to test out very soon.
There is lots of people who have reviewed the original ones, and some info out already about the new one:

 

 

 

 

 

 

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15 hours ago, IronFilm said:

 

 

It is just normal short shotgun length, same as say the ME66 that the OP is also considering. 
 


Is only days or so away from being publicly available. I'll have mine to test out very soon.
There is lots of people who have reviewed the original ones, and some info out already about the new one:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wow IronFilm this is really helpful, I don't yet know all the benefits of a brass housing except for the sturdiness and ruggability in the build quality but this is the 1st super-cardiod mic I would seriously consider buying...I think I would have to increase my budget upto £1000 for others too.  As far as the question about the 1/8 TRS input audio jack; I dont intend to buy ANY microphone where I have to rely on this connection as I'm ONLY looking for one with an XLR connector.  The Sony PXW-Z90 offers phantom power so this mic would easily fit the profile of what I'm looking for :)

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16 hours ago, Jim Feeley said:

 

Looks like that microphone is pretty long for mounting on a camcorder, and longer than the OP is looking for:

https://www.deitymic.com/smic2/

Length 9.84″ / 250 mm

 

Also, is that mic available yet? Here's one place that seems to suggest that it's not yet out (at least not here in the US):

https://www.gothamsound.com/product/smic-shotgun-microphone

 

Buy

This item is in pre-order.

Expected Release: July 2018

PRICE:$359.00

 

Anyone here have hands-on experience with it?

 

Hi Jim, I've just seen your review on youtube and I'm impressed with your analysis, I will of course be housing this in a zeppelin as I will be recording externally, the lack of other features such as a battery doesn't bother me as I will be using it with my Sony Z90 professional solid state memory camcorder that offers phantom power on the XLR handle.  I think the price is a bonus as I was rapidly expecting to fork out well in excess of £500 for my 1st mic.

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1 hour ago, Mr Morisato said:

the lack of other features such as a battery doesn't bother me

Built in battery power isn't normal in pro microphones anyway 

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Hey IronFilm, Is it possible to attach a sound blimp to a camcorder?  I'm looking at purchasing a rycote blimp that would house a mic upto 30cm long and then attach it to my sony Z90 via the hotshoe mount fixing however, I believe any sound blimp with windshield would be too heavy for the hotshoe mount fixing.

 

If I can't mount the blimp onto my camcorder then was going to explore other fixings I could use to attach it separately to my tripod, any ideas?  No worries if not.

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20 hours ago, IronFilm said:

It is just normal short shotgun length, same as say the ME66 that the OP is also considering. 


[The S-Mic 2] Is only days or so away from being publicly available. I'll have mine to test out very soon.

 

These threads get long, but remember the OP said:

On 7/10/2018 at 3:11 PM, Mr Morisato said:

my budget for this is up to about £250 for the microphone.... I had access to the sennheiser K6/ME66 shotgun super-cardiod microphone however, I do not wish to buy a shotgun mic if I can avoid it as this model is a bit long (10-12 inches in length) I will prefer buying a mic thats under 6 inches in length if possible (so a short cardiod mic is preferred)

So that influenced my, and probably others' suggestions. As for the S-Mic 2, I look forward to reading (and perhaps hearing) what you think of it. But perhaps a bit early to consider it the best choice, no? :-)

 

 

5 hours ago, Mr Morisato said:

Hi Jim, I've just seen your review on youtube...

 

For the record, I don't have a review on YouTube (unless someone was bored enough to review me for some oddball reason). There's been some helpful videos posted in this thread, so I don't want to take credit from IronFilm, Ty, et al.

 

Looking forward to hearing what you decide to go with. Good luck!

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10 hours ago, Jim Feeley said:

So that influenced my, and probably others' suggestions. As for the S-Mic 2, I look forward to reading (and perhaps hearing) what you think of it. But perhaps a bit early to consider it the best choice, no? :-)

 

It will be an improvement over the Aputure Deity shotgun, which is sufficient for me to already believe it would be better value than say a new NTG2 or ME66

 

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If you are really on a tripod at all times, why not buy something with that in mind? 

That would mean you get buy a long shotgung if you wanted to, or, something I would prefer, a stereo mic solution. 

With stereo you may lose some of the „kick“ and maybe some details, but on the other hand you’ll get much nicer, more immersive atmosphere and the sound would be independent from your camera angle and noise. 

There are some ok low budget stereo mics available, such as the Rode NT-4. I also have the Beyerdynamic MCE 72 (stereo mic) which was made for on-camera mounting. Again not very nice sounding, but ok for the price. 

The NT-4 is quite heavy and may not be suitable for on camera applications. Or you buy two separate mics and put them on a stand with a stereo bar. 

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The biggest difference between microphones is the person using them. 

 

Yes, this forum was designed and intended for professional sound folks. 

 

Others, including newbies whose main interest is discussing semi-pro gear ad nauseam, are tolerated mostly due to the good graces of those here.  But make no mistake, the intent is a forum that is a gathering place for experienced pros to discuss careers, techniques, and the tools of our trade.

 

Therefore, threads about entry-level gear are tolerated but are not intended as the focus.

 

Keeping that in mind, please understand how off-topic and rude it is for someone to come on here and ask, "How can I avoid paying you for the skills you've learned over the years?" 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, John Blankenship said:

The biggest difference between microphones is the person using them. 

 

Yes, this forum was designed and intended for professional sound folks. 

 

Others, including newbies whose main interest is discussing semi-pro gear ad nauseam, are tolerated mostly due to the good graces of those here.  But make no mistake, the intent is a forum that is a gathering place for experienced pros to discuss careers, techniques, and the tools of our trade.

 

Therefore, threads about entry-level gear are tolerated but are not intended as the focus.

 

Keeping that in mind, please understand how off-topic and rude it is for someone to come on here and ask, "How can I avoid paying you for the skills you've learned over the years?" 

 

 

 

 

My Apologies John Blankenship, I found this website from an expert sound recordist - Jay Rose in which his works and suggestions to valuable sources such as this one from the University I studied at.  And I know Universities aren't simply exclusively open to just professional sound recordists.

 

But I'm glad you pointed that out to me.

 

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Budget film making is best left to those types of forums. But as the OP stated, they specifically want a low budget cardioid mic for their camera. Well, if you pop into any Guitar Center you may find a combo package of an Audio Technica 2020 and 2021 for about $100. The 2020 is a “large diaphragm” studio type mic that doesn’t sound too bad, and the 2021 is a tiny pencil mic that sounds pretty good too. It is tiny and I use mine for my slate mic, and have in the past put it on cameras when working jobs with multiple cameras that had no Time Code or on board mic (yes they do exist!) but still had XLR inputs with phantom power. 

 

You’ll want some kind of wind protection for it, lots of offerings from Rode, Rycote, BumbleBee, Koala, etc etc. 

 

Note that any on board camera mic will only serve as reference and never replace the role of a dedicated sound person, and I’ve been doing this long enough to be able to tell you that a one-man crew charged with camera and sound will neglect the sound 100% of the time because they will be too focused on their camera work. 

 

I highly recommend making friends with a local sound pro, discussing rates with them, and try to bid your clients with the costs of that person in mind. I have successfully managed to enlighten many would-be one-man production teams to go this route and their clients generally respect them more for it, and are always pleased with the results. 

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