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Audiotect

start up gear for field recording

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Hello

Found this forum - Nice

Been doing music and sound design for years (own producer studio with mainly high end gear like Mytek, Tubetech, Brauner mics), but now I want to record and make my own fieldrecordings - well recordings of anything from wind, rain, waves, camels, bikes, music  etc.

 

I need to record both mono and stereo

I´m not on a very big budget, so no Sound devices 744 for me..

and I know that I might need different mics to cover all my wishes, but gotta start somewhere

 

 

What I think I will go for:

SD Mixpre 6

Line Audio cm3 X 2

 

Cables of course - in the studioworld I normally go for Mogami...?

A bag..

maybe some extra power option (any suggestions are welcome)

 

BUT I also need a mount/windshield solution

This is new to me - spending my time in a studio...

I will record outside in a windy country (Denmark) and the cm3´s are very sensitive

 

What I would like is a XY mount system somehow protected with...a windshield (I´m new here..!), so I can use different mic settings and avoid wind issues.

and the only solution I can find is Rycote XY cage - and that thing is EXPENSIVE!

 

I found out that Rycote did make an XY mount that Watson Wu managed to get into a Røde Blimp

and the prices for this combo seems in reach, but XY mount is no longer in production.

 

What to do..?

 

I´m not born a DIY guy...

 

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Hello,

 

A few thoughts:

 

Pattern. Why specifically XY? Even if a compact and practical MS setup isn't feasible on cost grounds, you could make life easier and cheaper by using ORTF, NOS or AB, with individual windjammers for each mic (these could be baby ball gags or full blimps like the affordable Rode, depending on mics and pattern). Omni mics handle wind best, and can be fantastic for nature/ambience recording.

 

Windjammer effectiveness. Be wary of squeezing mic pairs into blimps not designed for the purpose: the distance from the mic capsule to the side of the blimp/windjammer is crucial - reduce this and reduce the wind attenuation.

 

Mics. CM3 have many fans for cost-effective music recording, but not sure they should be your first choice for field recordings, in terms of self-noise, handling noise and wide cardioid pattern. As Sennheiser MKH mics appear out of your reach, how about some more affordable SDC mics that give you capsule choices? E.g. a pair of Rode NT55?

 

Recorder: SD MixPre-6 is a good affordable choice. But if money is tight and you only want to make mono and stereo recordings, why not go for the MixPre-3, and spend more on mics and wind protection? Smaller is always good for field/nature recording, when lugging kit. Decent rechargeable AA batteries (e.g. Eneloop Pro) are fine for this, and are the simplest, lightest and most robust option, unless recording unbroken for hour after hour...

 

Other resources: Magnus Bergsson has a thoughtful website relevant to you where he shows a huge variety of mics, recorders etc. for similar recording, with files you can listen to: https://fieldrecording.net/english/ 

 

Cheers,

 

Roland

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You should check out the Zoom F4, you'll save some money over getting the MixPre6, & for me personally at least I'd prefer the F4. 

 

Or a secondhand Zoom F8, they're dirt cheap and with the new v5.0 update it almost turns the F8 into a F8n!

 

 

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I was tempted to pick up a pair pf cm3s as they get a lot of praise. I went for audix scx1c in the end as I got a good price and they are listed with lower self noise.

 

The Cm3s have the advantage that they are really short and some people 3d prints parts for ortf or nos mounting in blimps (correct me if I am wrong, but I think they can fin in a rode mkii blimp).

 

If the wind is not too bad, you can have a look at using rode WS8 and a stereobar on a mic stand.

 

The problem as always will be really quite sources, then the cm3s wont be enough. Neither is the Audix btw... The selfnoise starts to kreep in on quite forest recordings etc.

 

Mixpre6. This is what I use and I am really happy with it! For the moment it sounds like overkill and a dr100mkiii might do it just fine, but if you want to expand and record two stereopairs, log metadata, use markers, analogue limiters etc (and I imagine even ambisonics) its a worthwhile investment. If you ever go for a tiny MS setup, you have got the possibility to record MS on LR mix while leave the isos raw, superhandy!

 

For long sessions the L sled is a nice addition and for not intrusive recordings I use a binocular harness and AA batteries which makes it small enough to wear under a shirt and not call any attention.

 

Something to be aware of is that the people have reported some noise in the infrasonic spectrum when using 192k. They are working on it, but who knows if and when there will be a fix. 96k works fine.

 

I hope that helps!

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4 hours ago, IronFilm said:

You should check out the Zoom F4, you'll save some money over getting the MixPre6, & for me personally at least I'd prefer the F4. 

 

Or a secondhand Zoom F8, they're dirt cheap and with the new v5.0 update it almost turns the F8 into a F8n!

 

 

I'm with IronFilm on this one, the Zoom F4 is a great recorder mixer. I would have bought that one had I not invested money on my Zoom F8, which I don't regret at all. The new firm is awesome, and a huge step up! Whatever you decide we're here to help and support each other let us know if you help with anything. Good Luck!

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My opinion is this: you get what you pay for. Why not do some research, decide what you really want, not just what you can afford at the moment, and save up. A used 702 would be a better option in terms of quality than any budget machines mentioned, and I’m sure you’ll be able to find one at a killer price. 

 

Mics are another point of quality to consider, but you may also consider which mics will work best with certain wind shields. I agree that a pair of Omni mics would be the best option if you didn’t want to go MS, and you can find used high end mics if you keep your eyes open and aren’t in a rush to get yourself a mediocre setup. Neumann and sennheiser mics come up fairly often on the used market for prices that I have a hard time not snatching up!

 

Baby Ball gags and other basket type windshields are the most effective in my opinion. But like I said, you should make an informed decision and not build you kit solely base on budget. If you want to sell anything you record, you may have a harden time doing so if people learn about a budget rig. 

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I think the CM3 could be a decent cheap first pair, particularly for atmos. SD, Zoom 4/8 or a Tascam likewise: depends a lot on what you have/want to spend and want to use.

 

K+M Stereo bar (cheap as chips and absolutely crucial), a Cullmann Magnesit Copter mini-tripod/grip (you'll have to get a 'camera to 3/8" thread adapter from a camera shop) and start off with 'softies' or similar substitutes. Less wind protection but if it's too windy just don't record! (Not even full windshields are completely perfect - but on a film take they are generally a necessary best compromise to awful recording conditions). It might help with the CM3s to cut some bike handlebar foam to cover the exposed mic bodies ( to soak up light wind hitting the rest of the mic).

 

If you do start DIY-ing fitting a K+M stereo bar into the older style Rycote large windshields size D or E might work well for the CM3s with low profile XLRs but you still won't get optimal spacing inside the windshield - so again, not perfect. I would start simply with softie-like windshields.

 

Not sure if a different power option is necessary starting out. Wait and see how you go on AAs/ rechargeables. Unless you have a recording setup requiring the unit being turned on constantly. Of course there are cheaper options than production recordists might use if you're only needing a 5v feed or something...

 

And my second most important recommendation (after the stereo bar) is free! Download Michael Williams' booklet The Stereophonic Zoom from the Rycote website. An invaluable intro and guide to stereo recording angles. Bear in mind that the CM3s will fall somewhere between a 'perfect cardioid' and a 'perfect omni' response when interpreting / using his charts / curves.

 

Jez

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8 hours ago, Mattias Larsen said:

Mixpre6. This is what I use and I am really happy with it! For the moment it sounds like overkill and a dr100mkiii might do it just fine, but if you want to expand and record two stereopairs, log metadata, use markers, analogue limiters etc (and I imagine even ambisonics) its a worthwhile investment. If you ever go for a tiny MS setup, you have got the possibility to record MS on LR mix while leave the isos raw, superhandy!

I do recommend a lot trying out the MixPre6 before you buy it, as it seems to have lots of "gotchas". Like the menu is a bit of a pain, plus it really is more like a "MixPre4" than a MixPre6 if you need to do TC (as that takes up inputs 5/6) and lacks just various things I'd expect as "normal" such as having pre-roll.

 

These might be dealbreakers for you, or they might not be, which is why I recommend trying out the MixPre6 first (or go with the Zoom F4/F8n/F8, as for those reasons and others is why I prefer them over the MixPre3/6 recorders).

6 hours ago, JonG said:

A used 702 would be a better option in terms of quality than any budget machines mentioned, and I’m sure you’ll be able to find one at a killer price. 

Have you used extensively both the 702 and F8n/F4? 
Although it is a long time since I used the 702, and was only for just one film, I do feel like the F8n/F4 (which I own) are an easy win to choose over the 702 for any one starting out like the OP is. 

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Hi
First of all; Thanks to all of you for thorough feedback. I´ve got more to think about...

 

I could raise my budget, but my choices (for now!) is based on where i guess i get the best quality for a budget around 2000 USD.
but what I understand more now, is that i need to be more specific about my needs - also maybe stop wanting a "do it all" solution.
 Or, if so: I need to get the Sennheiser´s, right?


The reason for starting out, is that I always need sounds that is not in a commercial library - or instead of buying a 30GB library, I could just go and record the one sound I need.
I do work for cultural museums, and often has strange and interesting objects at hand, thet needs to be recorded. 
It could be instruments, drums, gongs, bells, flutes, things that makes spirits go away..
 
I also come short of (the last project) russian motorbikes, camels, better sheep recordings etc..

 

I live in the country side, nearby several(!) animal parks, so I´m actually surrounded by bears, wolves, camels, tigers, rhinos, cows, sheep, harvesters, tractors, birds, dogs etc.

BUT also quiet fields and noisy seas.

and the other thing i always comes short of is very quiet field recordings, the sound of a garden at night, the sound of a living room, the sound of the forest at night or a meditationroom...

 

And last: Sometimes I need to record a single musician on location, or do an interview with an old man or..

 

I want a simple set up. I even considered a Sony PCM D100, but the lack of XLR/Phantom (i Know about denecke) and the stereo limitation puzzles me

 

Recorder: 
mixpre is selected because of the quality of the preamps, and the mixpre 6 is because I want to be prepared for ambisonics (next step). I know about the 192 KHz issues.
Zoom recorders: I have only experience with H4n and H2n, handy but I need better sound quality. The F4/F8 series: Only from internet, just liked the SD´s better (so far!)


XY recording: I just want to be able to record with any config. but actually, after reading more I think I could go for ORFT most of the time. I´ve done some MS recordings and I think it is interesting, switchting/fading between stereo and mono.

 

Microphone:
I think thats the tuff part. Of course you need different mics for different situations.
Nobody around where i live seems to have this kind of gear, so I relay on massive research and my knowledge with studio mics. 

 

Cm3: on www.creativefieldrecording.com a fair bunch of people use Cm3. I listened to examples and i liked the overall sound, but I´m a bit concerned re. their low sensitivity. Thats why I was asking for a good mount/windshield solution.

Røde mics: there is something about the high frequencies that I don´t like. But I´m aware that they seems to have a low noise floor. I need a closer listen.

I like better Audio technica mics and Magnus Bergsson has some interesting notes on AT mics.

I consider buying One Sennheiser and then add another similar later on - but is that wise, re. stereo paired mics...?
I don´t know what Sennheiser will fit me the best, maybe an 8040
They sound really really good.

I have Sennheiser 418s and 416 on hand used (half price), and the 418s was tempting but then I saw remarks about noisefloor and the suitability for ambience recording.

tuff one, right..?

 

keep it coming

I will go slow on this one

 

BR
Søren

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19 minutes ago, Audiotect said:

Recorder: 
mixpre is selected because of the quality of the preamps, and the mixpre 6 is because I want to be prepared for ambisonics (next step). I know about the 192 KHz issues.
Zoom recorders: I have only experience with H4n and H2n, handy but I need better sound quality. The F4/F8 series: Only from internet, just liked the SD´s better (so far!)

 

 

I own a MixPre 3 and I am really happy with it. 

 

It can be a bit confusing at first, that's right, but only because it's much more flexible than it seems at first and the manual doesn't realy explain the desing philosophy behind the user interface. Once you realize how it works you will be really amazed.

 

The main design principle is: configure it to tailor the way you work and you are set. It will be really foolproof in operation. Also, it's really three devices in one, which can further confuse things: a field mixer, a multi track recorder and an audio interface.


Doing field recording (right now mostly birds in mono with a shotgun microphone) I have configured it so that the fader knobs work as a combined analog+digital gain, recording only ISOs (independent, pre fader channels) with no stereo mix and with the headphone just receiving a sum of the inputs without any frills. If you want to monitor M/S, etc, you can also do it from the headphone preset configuration while your ISO tracks are recorded without any processing.

 

Once that is properly configured, it's a matter of record, stop, play, recording levels and headphone monitoring levels. Minimalistic :)

 

 

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1 hour ago, Audiotect said:

Hi
First of all; Thanks to all of you for thorough feedback. I´ve got more to think about...

 

I could raise my budget, but my choices (for now!) is based on where i guess i get the best quality for a budget around 2000 USD.
but what I understand more now, is that i need to be more specific about my needs - also maybe stop wanting a "do it all" solution.


After reading through the thread I'm guessing you want to do audio that has nothing whatsoever to do with filmmaking

As if your purposes are for a cultural museum then you'll have radically different needs (because you don't need to worry about those bothersome cameras getting in your way! ha), there would be better forums to ask for feedback than this one?

Because jwsoundgroup is first of all discussing how to do sound for picture. 

I'm not however saying don't discuss this hear (not at all, I love more of these discussions!), just that you can get better and more feedback elsewhere. 

Try Taperssection and gearsultz?
 

59 minutes ago, borjam said:

I own a MixPre 3 and I am really happy with it. 

 

It can be a bit confusing at first, that's right, but only because it's much more flexible than it seems at first and the manual doesn't realy explain the desing philosophy behind the user interface. Once you realize how it works you will be really amazed.

 

The main design principle is: configure it to tailor the way you work and you are set. It will be really foolproof in operation. Also, it's really three devices in one, which can further confuse things: a field mixer, a multi track recorder and an audio interface.


But doing even very simple things like solo-ing a track seem to be waaaaay more effort than it should be, as I'll be doing this countless time's during the day on a shoot. On any normal recorder such as the Zoom F series (or even my old Tascam DR680mk1! That I started out on with a Sound Devices 552 mixer front end) or a Sound Devices 633/664/688 this is only a single press away that you can quickly jump in and out of in an instance. Not so for the MixPre. 

Just to give an example of one of many examples, if you'd like another: where is pre roll?!?! The smaller the production (which is the main usage of these sub $1K recorders!) the more likely it seems you'll need it! Again, another negative for the MixPre series. 

So basically, I feel the MixPre series serves poorly the on set sound recordist, they're more suited for something else instead. For instance the MixPre3 would be great for a one many band videographer who values size very very highly indeed (as the MixPre3 is truly teeny tiny!).  Although many jwsoundgroup members quite like the MixPre series as a secondary recorder, and for that I can agree a lot with, if it isn't your main daily drive you can put up with the quirks here or there. 

 

I could probably go on for much longer if I had the chance though! (for instance the F8 allows you to display track names in the display very handy, a negative that all the MixPre series are missing, you have to buy a 633/688/etc for that. Or you can choose and save a variety of headset presets in the F8 and quickly jump between them, while in a MixPre you'd have to recreate each one. Or the Automix feature the Zooms have, or the Fader Panel accessory you can buy from Zoom which is waaaaaaaay cheaper than a Sound Devices 688 + CL12 combo! :-o Anyway, let's cut myself off here before I drag myself out too far. But basically the deeper you dig into it, the more the Zoom F8n can do. However meanwhile the limitations of the Sound Devices MixPre series make themselves more and more glaringly obvious. However again, it depends on the person, maybe people don't need to dig this deep or make such demanding demands of their equipment such as if they're just using it casually or as a secondary recorder to their main production machine. For them the MixPre series is perfectly fine, for others who do demand more from their gear then you really have to buy the Zoom F8n instead or spend heaps more on a Sound Devices 633/688 or Nomad/SX-R4+/etc)

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1 hour ago, Audiotect said:

Microphone:
I think thats the tuff part. Of course you need different mics for different situations.

It might be good to clarify exactly what the purposes of the recordings are, how will the be used for instance?

For instance I might imagine it is possible you might like to do ambisonic recordings if they're going to be shared with museum visitors in private listening booths who want to experience being in the environment? If so, you should keep an eye out for the new Rode NT-SF1 which is coming out probably next month. (Rode's parent company purchased the famous SoundFields company, so I have high hopes for the NT-SF1! As I've used and loved the SoundField SPS200 when I've rented it for work)

 

 

1 hour ago, Audiotect said:

Zoom recorders: I have only experience with H4n and H2n, handy but I need better sound quality. The F4/F8 series: Only from internet, just liked the SD´s better (so far!)


If  you have never used a Zoom F8n/F4 before then forget everything you have ever experienced from a Zoom ever before!

Seriously. I almost half wonder if Zoom should have spun off a brand new brand for the Zoom F8 (it is their best selling product ever! No surprises there), just like Apture has done for Deity. 

I myself never thought I'd end up being such a fan of a Zoom product :-o As to my ears Tascam and Roland were the clear winners in the low budget market (I had a Tascam DR60Dmk1 as a student but very quickly got a Sound Devices 552 / Tascam DR680mk1 combo, until I upgraded to the Zoom F4), while Zoom only made trash for my purposes. And of course Sound Devices / Nagra / Sonosax / Zaxcom / Aaton / etc were the goal!

But the Zoom F8 (then F4 then F8n) flipped all that upside down. I'm sure I made the smarter decision to buy a Zoom F4 back when it was announced rather than making a premature leap to a Sound Devices 633. 


Was a little trickier the decision for me to buy the Zoom F8n now I've got a few more years under my belt, but I still feel comfortable with my choice in buying an F8n and putting that extra money elsewhere instead. For instance I just purchased a Sound Devices SR + SMQV + LMb, and got various mics lately like a Sanken CS1e and AKG CK63/CK61. If I'd got a 633 (or 688!! :-o ) that would have severely restricted my freedom to buy other sound gear I need (read: "want"). 

Now I own a F8n I can sit back and patiently wait to see what happens next, waiting probably for a Sound Devices 664mk2 to come out? Or maybe Tascam/Roland/Marantz to wake up from being MIA in for years to return with a splash? (as seriously, the Tascam HS-P82 and Roland R88 are freaking ANCIENT!! But for their time they were AWESOME. But that time was a very very very loooooong time ago) Or maybe Zoom will launch a "F12" for $2K packed full of even more features we can't even dream of yet? Maybe Zaxcom will update their Nomad/Maxx, maybe Sonosax will slash the price of their SX-R4+? (I'd love one!) Who knows, but I do know that with my F8n I can happily sit back and wait while feeling no rush at all to get a new recorder for the next few years. 

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Ok, I feel like the OP can still be wanting to do sound for picture, but more from a post perspective. From what he is asking about I don't see the reason to pick a zoom over a mixpre unless you do 192 recording at the moment. The mixpre is half the weight, sounds slightly better, got a better hp amp (compared to the f4 at least) and for field recording or sfx collection there is no need for TC. If solo monitoring is needed - that can be done via the touchscreen and while it is more akward.. It will actually make no sound. You can too have a set of different hp presets on the mixpre and also routing/setting presets for all the things you can change about the channels, recording and name settings all accecable 3 clicks from the metering view.

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1 hour ago, Audiotect said:

mixpre is selected because of the quality of the preamps, and the mixpre 6 is because I want to be prepared for ambisonics (next step). I know about the 192 KHz issues.

Zoom F series preamps are equally good. It has been shown again and again that even in an A/B comparison people can not tell the difference. In real life though.... we're never going to get an A/B comparison!! So you'd have to be a superhuman to always get it right in telling the difference piratically between Zoom F series vs Sound Devices pre amps. 

And the Zoom F8n is a better tool for ambisonics than the MixPre6.

14 minutes ago, Mattias Larsen said:

Ok, I feel like the OP can still be wanting to do sound for picture, but more from a post perspective.

Dunno, I'd like to hear more, seems OP is doing it for a museum? Could be cultural preservation recordings.

 

 

14 minutes ago, Mattias Larsen said:

From what he is asking about I don't see the reason to pick a zoom over a mixpre unless you do 192 recording at the moment. The mixpre is half the weight

I'll give you that, the MixPre3 is super teeny tiny! First time I saw it that hit me just how small the MixPre3 is in person, it has to be seen. 

So if a person is traveling a lot that might be a factor, though the MixPre6 is a little bigger but still very small. However even the Zoom F8n is a very small recorder! Just look at it next to a 633:

 

Image result for zoom f8 633

14 minutes ago, Mattias Larsen said:

sounds slightly better

Debatable, in practice usage indistinguishable. Emphasis is on the word slightly

 

 

 

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29 minutes ago, Mattias Larsen said:

got a better hp amp (compared to the f4 at least)

I'll give you that. But hasn't been a deal breaker for me with the F4 over the years I've used it since it first came out. 

And there is an interesting little debate going on now which needs to be tested over in the Zoom F8 usergroups, now that the brand new Zoom F8 v5.0 firmware came out. Which is AWESOME news for F8 news (although surprising for us F8n owners....), because among the many many improvements it brought to the F8, one of them is an improved headphone amp. Which leaves us wondering, did the F8n ship with a physically better headphone inside the recorder, or is it the same headphone amp but they kinda somewhat screwed up the implementation of it which has now finally been fixed in the firmware of the F8n and now the F8 as well for free? Because if so (which seems very likely, as new F8 v5.0 upgraders are commenting the  headphone amp is greatly improved over the older F8 firmware) then it is very likely an improved headphone amp sound from the F4 is coming out just around the corner very soon.

 

 

29 minutes ago, Mattias Larsen said:

from the metering view.

Yes, but you don't see the track names displayed in the metering view like you do with the 6 series and like the Zoom F8/F8n can do. 

 

This is handy to see what the MixPre10T is missing (and also the MixPre3/6 is missing the same, and even more):

https://www.gothamsound.com/sound-devices-mixpre-10t6-series-comparison-chart

Anyway, we're digging into details that probably don't matter for the OP! But I was just getting sidetracked in sharing why I didn't go for a MixPre series recorder. 

 

29 minutes ago, Mattias Larsen said:

You can too have a set of different hp presets on the mixpre

My bad! I went and double checked the manual, indeed you have User Presets 1-4 available to you (less than you have in the F8/F8n, but still I got that wrong and you do have the option to save headphone presets, I got it wrong). Thank you. 

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I don´t think I´m in the wrong place - you all seem to have an opinion on sound 🙂

 

I´m not doing audiowork for film, like going out in the field recording with a boom - but you never know what comes your way when working for a museum.

I do work with film, doing foley/aktion sound, sound design, music, recording speak. and would like to do more.

 

what I actually do:

 

A short (!) description of the last exhibition: (On the steppes of Dhengis Khan, Moesgaard Museum, Denmark)

Entry:

10 channels sound design (in a row on one side) - inside a train wagon - 4 windows with passing landscapes, cars, camels, horses, poles etc, train driving in and out of tunnels - evertime changing timeperiods (1000 years ago, in the 30´s, today).

main room: 

two concentric circles with 8 speaker in each circle) 16 channels in total- speakers combined in Flux revolution - a sort of 2 x octaphonic sound or 16 channels of immersive sound.

- Inner circle - inside a Ger (Mongolian tent), music, speak and sound design,

- Outer circle (outside the Ger, on the steppe, with mountains in distance): sound design and foley for two film (one on the left wall, one on the right wall) showing different landscapes, ger - camps, sheeps, cars, motorbikes, camels, etc passing by (also "jumping form L fil to R film), weather change (first 6 min of winter, 1,5 min of heavy rain, 6 min of summer, 1,5 min of heavy wind)

 

still in the main room:

- A quad sound design (situated in a "circle tent") based on recordings of shamen from Mongolia.

- an interaktive set up where you pack a camel and the the camel rides of into the film on the Right side of the wall (Stereo)

- in the middle of the main room, playing in headphones, combined with interaction on the floor and the ceiling): sound design and music for a tale about Djengis Khan (stereo)

In the next room (en suite):

- a complete sound  design of a mongolian Buddhist temple, complete with, rag duns, prayer wheels, hundred of monks chanting while banging gongs, bells, shaking rattle sticks etc. (stereo)

- on the side of the temple two different exhibitions areas with environment/ambience sound design (mainly horses) - (Stereo)

- Behind the temple

- a movie on the wall, music and sound design, and speak in headphones - (mixed in binaural stereo)

 

Every sound -  coming from either music or sound design is composed in to one big composition to avoid chlashes of sound/pitch etc - and to create "room in the room".

The idea was to create the place - a hybrid place, but basically a Ger standing out on a steppe somewhere in Mongolia...:-)

and I did 🙂

 

Apart from that I´m doing electronica, writing classical music and teaching guitar, bass, ensemble and studio technics/production etc and...sound design

 

Okay:

I certainly have my ears and eyes out for Rode NT-SF1

I have the studio gear for working with ambisonics except for the mic...

and the field recorder

But mainly I see myself walking around in muddy fields or in one of the animal parks recording peacocks, or banging on big wooden drums in a a storage house, or sitting all night in the forest recording "the place".

I´ve called out in my danish community/forum for people with mics, recorders and field experience - so far one tried to sell me a Zoom H6 🙂

 

Any (more) suggestions for mid priced SDC?

 

And if I go for Røde NT55 (listening now - hmm..better than i remembered) 

what windshield/mount solution..!?

two babyballs or does Røde have someting suitable for their own products...

 

BR

Søren Bendixen

 

 

 

 

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27 minutes ago, Audiotect said:

I certainly have my ears and eyes out for Rode NT-SF1

Also keep any ear out for how it compares with the low priced Sennheiser AMBEO. Or the Tetra Mic.

Or of course there is the Soundfield SPS200, but you might need to find that secondhand to get it in your budget. 

 

 

27 minutes ago, Audiotect said:

 

I´ve called out in my danish community/forum for people with mics, recorders and field experience - so far one tried to sell me a Zoom H6 🙂

Don't! The Zoom F4 is only a teeny teeny bit more expensive, but so so much better as a field recorder. 

It is almost like they're made by two completely different companies.....

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It seems like Rode NT-SF1 will go for around 999 usd in USA i guess, that´s cheaper than the AMBEO.

A soundfield would be nice - after reading post after post they still seems ahead.

But the Røde - Soundfield combination looks interesting

 

I won´t go near any of the Zoom handheld recorders. The only handheld I feel could do the job is Sony PCM D100.

I have the feeling Sony will come up with someting new soon..

 

I got to find a person with a F8 so I can listen.

 

thanks

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There are several regulars here who have a wide experience of recording outside film: field recording, radio, music, ambisonics, VR are discussed fairly frequently. So welcome!

 

My first decent personal kit (to travel across USSR etc) was a Sony Pro Walkman and a (very long term) borrowed ECM50. My next purchase was a Sennheiser ME40 + ME80. Granted I was doing field recording, then post production (rather than 'starting out' as a production recordist) but had I waited until I could afford a Nagra (or fair enough an HHB), an SQN-4S, two MKH mics etc I'd have recorded nothing in the 80s and precious little in the 90s - outside of work that is. So I'm all in favour of building up sensible kit to a budget, then adding and upgrading when you can. I've never cried that I only had an ME40 and not an MKH40 until years later: I learnt my trade with that ME40 (and of course used world class mics at work). I'm not trying to say that crap gear can start one off on a great career - many career paths will need a fairly substantial minimum budget (or access to certain quality products through hiring or otherwise). But building up a basic kit for field recording, fx recording, interviews and personal use is nowadays especially easy. So in this OP's case I would:

 

1: Look around for hire facilities and dealers in your area. Find out what is (and isn't) available to hire from former and get to 'try before you buy' from the latter.

 

2: Buy a decent first recorder - either try a few options from SD, Zoom, Tascam, Sony etc or just get the MP6 which I'm sure will serve you just as well.

 

3: Buy a pair of mics so you always have access to a pair when needed. If you can increase your budget to MKH8040s they will serve you brilliantly - they have me. But if you can't then still get something cheaper - even much cheaper - so that you have something half decent you can use.

 

4: Mics, because they keep their value, are relatively cheap to hire - so hire MKHs if necessary when you need the noise floor and better quality; a figure of 8 (or MS kit) if you want to experiment with MS (and for museum objects and odd instruments you may well decide this is a good technique). I personally wouldn't buy an ambisonic mic or an expensive figure 8 mic until you know this or that is a technique that you're doing a lot of - although a Soundfield is a relatively expensive sound hire it's preferable to blowing half one's budget on a toy that may not be required much - so I would hire first and wait and see.

 

5: Buy the other essentials - ie budget for them - headphones, stereo bar, simple windscreens, a simple boompole, tripod. Although you'll probably end up with higher quality windscreens and accessories I'd hold off until I knew what I needed before blowing a lot of money on something less useful than something else ...

 

Best of luck again. Try to find dealers and hire places within travel ...

 

Jez

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2 hours ago, Audiotect said:

And if I go for Røde NT55 (listening now - hmm..better than i remembered) 

what windshield/mount solution..!?

two babyballs or does Røde have someting suitable for their own products...

 

The omni capsule is really rather good, and a pair of NT55s would be an affordable way of getting going with two capsule options: as Jez says, hiring more expensive mics for particular projects may be a good bet too in early days.

 

Yes, a pair of Baby Ball gags (with furry windjammers) would be wise and, with omnis in particular, they can work in reasonable wind.

 

Another affordable option (in addition perhaps?) for wind protection would be a Rode blimp (not first choice for booming, as the MK1 version in particular is a little heavy and large, but decent enough and usefully roomy for field recording). In addition to housing a mic for mono recording with better wind protection than a ball gag or softie (you make no reference to a shotgun or hypercardioid mic, which you might want to consider in addition to the wider pattern mics you are contemplating - there are plenty of budget options to get you going), you can even stick a pair of SDC omnis (the NT55s are the perfect length) end to end in a Rode blimp giving yourself an extremely robust, portable and windproof AB stereo pair with enough separation (350mm) - see pic! Effectiveness of the blimp is not reduced since the capsules remain the designed distance from the sides. Anyway, just an example of a bit of lateral thinking.

 

Cheers,

 

Roland

NT55_omni_pair_in_blimp_lo_res.jpg

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Check out these:

https://micbooster.com/primo-microphone-capsules/135-clippy-em184-xlr-matched-pair.html

https://micbooster.com/primo-microphone-capsules/137-clippy-em184-stereo.html

 

And the various ortf mounts for them and other mics, some of which can be printed:

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2667419

https://tombenedict.wordpress.com/2016/08/05/clippy-em184-cardioid-mics-and-ortf/

https://www.google.co.uk/search?biw=1248&bih=755&tbm=isch&sa=1&ei=LrNkW4SbDoT0gQbexqjwDg&q=3d+printed+ortf&oq=3d+printed+ortf&gs_l=img.3..35i39k1l2.5306.5495.0.7506.2.2.0.0.0.0.58.100.2.2.0....0...1c.1.64.img..0.1.58....0._7m1GPTOHsU

Quite a few for CM3s.

 

I've got a trip coming up and have been researching lightweight ortf rig. The 'clippy' and would fit well into a

 

Perhaps a clippy ortf bar fitting the suspension of a rycote supershield, as there would be enough air around the capsules to be effective and the pods to allow for flexible sizing. With cardioids you do have to take more care of the wind and then it's all about context. I.e. Can you roll again if the wind killed it? Bigger mics sound better but if they're spaced and something like 2 Rycote Softies or Baseballs aren't enough it'll mean at least 2 BBGs or proper windshields. Or:

http://www.cinela.fr/albert.php (Which'll take your spending to the next level before you even put mics into it).

 

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52 minutes ago, daniel said:

Check out these:

https://micbooster.com/primo-microphone-capsules/135-clippy-em184-xlr-matched-pair.html

https://micbooster.com/primo-microphone-capsules/137-clippy-em184-stereo.html

 

I've got a trip coming up and have been researching lightweight ortf rig. The 'clippy' and would fit well into a

 

 

I've used the similar omni Primo EM172 capsules for various miniature SASS and Olson wing arrays over the years, and the most minimal kit I carry now - when even a MixPre-3 and a couple of SDCs is too much - is a Sony M10 with a stereo pair of the EM172 'Clippy' mics with Rycote covers that FEL also supply. Clipped either side of a tree, body etc. (I baulk at fixing them to my hat!) they work well for extremely minimal/discreet nature/ambience recording (with much lower self-noise than a normal lav), although, obviously, they are not immune to wind and not really up to snuff on more demanding sources (such as music recording).

 

Cheers,

 

Roland

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20 hours ago, Throwback said:

Another affordable option (in addition perhaps?) for wind protection would be a Rode blimp (not first choice for booming, as the MK1 version in particular is a little heavy and large, but decent enough and usefully roomy for field recording). In addition to housing a mic for mono recording with better wind protection than a ball gag or softie (you make no reference to a shotgun or hypercardioid mic, which you might want to consider in addition to the wider pattern mics you are contemplating - there are plenty of budget options to get you going), you can even stick a pair of SDC omnis (the NT55s are the perfect length) end to end in a Rode blimp giving yourself an extremely robust, portable and windproof AB stereo pair with enough separation (350mm) - see pic! Effectiveness of the blimp is not reduced since the capsules remain the designed distance from the sides. Anyway, just an example of a bit of lateral thinking.

 

the v2.0 of the Rode Blimp is much better than the first, thanks partially to using Rycote shock mount instead

Anyway, this Marantz blimp looks very similar to the Rode Blimp v1.0 and is going for an extremely low price, worth a look if you're on a very tight budget:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1302687-REG/marantz_professional_zp_1_blimp_style_microphone_windscreen.html

 

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