Jump to content

How to cooler your bag(recorder)???


Cloud Wang

Recommended Posts

I'm a bag mixer,most of my job are documentaries,interview,ENG kind of shooting.I have a 788t in my bag.

the thing is,now is just spring,but i found the 788t sometimes will be really so HOT,the weather here is like 20-25'C,the real summer is not coming yet,i'm worried of when the 788t or any other hard drive recorder's temprature get too high to work.

anyone has any suggestion to deal with temprature?or any expierence with working under high temprature?or maybe any bad memories about anything bad happened cause of temprature.

thanks a lot

Cloud

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have had a 744T reach VERY high temperatures sitting in an insert car, before tenting a little white towel over it, leaving air flow intact.  Airflow is the key.  In a bag, with no airflow, my 744T has also reached high temperatures, but with no ill effect (yet).  Not sure if anyone has had a temperature failure.  Anyone?  The best suggestion is to allow some airflow whenever possible, and keep shaded.

The RED guys have serious issues with temperature, and use "gel" cooling packs - similar to ones used for icing an injury.  These are kept in a cooler somewhere, or in a small refrigerator.  I can't imagine it would hurt to have one of these around if you are bagged in a hot environment.

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

It's sort of off-tangent to this discussion but one of the motivating factors behind my purchase of an Aaton Cantar instead of a Fostex 606 (or other choices) was my experience working a very hot day in Woodland Hills with a Fostex PD4. The error light on the Fostex began to blink and I was afraid that the recorder might shut down from the heat in the middle of the workday. I filled ziplock bags with ice from the catering truck and balanced them on the Fostex to cool it down. Well, it worked fine but the bags leeched a little water and that trickled into the recorder and damaged a circuit. Fortunately, it only hurt one of the analog channels and I always used the recorder with a mixer so I was able to continue using the machine until it was retired for obsolescence. So, now I have a recorder that is water-tight. And, if I had need to cool any gear with bags of ice, I would keep careful watch for leakage.

I've adopted perforated aluminum for mounts on my sound cart. The material is available relatively cheaply from regular metal suppliers (e.g. Industrial Metal in Sun Valley - http://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/). It can be easily cut with tin snips although you would want to edge it with a metal cap or simply fold over a piece of tape to protect from sharp edges. It's nice because it permits airflow while also providing a surface that gear could be lashed to.

If I were working in a bag in very warm environments, I might cut a few pieces of perforated aluminum to useful sizes and affix adhesive rubber feet at key points. Then the aluminum could be slipped into the bag to hold the gear from the enveloping folds of the material and keep an air passage between pieces of equipment. I think a huge sheet of the perf metal cost me about $30 so the cost of a few pieces plus some rubber bumpers would be minimal. It'll help; it may not be enough for constant work with many tracks on a hot day.

David Waelder

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...I have a 788t in my bag. the thing is,now is just spring,but i found the 788t sometimes will be really so HOT,the weather here is like 20-25'C,the real summer is not coming yet,i'm worried of when the 788t or any other hard drive recorder's temprature get too high to work...

Just wait a little and upgrade your 788t to a 788tSSD, voila...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wait a little and upgrade your 788t to a 788tSSD, voila...

If you are referring to a version of the 788 that uses a solid state drive or card...?  I use a 702T, also using a CF, and it can get mighty darn hot on its own.  I don't think the heat generated by SD recorders has much to do with the HD in the 744 and 788, it has to do with it being a very small and very busy box electronically.  Ventilation is good.  Cold packs make me nervous, esp since I don't think the front LCD panel of the recorders is sealed up that well.  One of my fave RED stories has to do with PAs being sent to a nearby supermarket for packages of frozen vegetables to drape over the camera to keep it from shutting down on a hot day.

Philip Perkins

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My 442 and 744 are attached by small pieces of sticky velcro in the bag and this gap provides a little bit of airflow, on the other side of the 744 I inserted a thin piece of plywood (about 5mm wide) and stuck those sticky felt circles that you put underneath furniture legs to stop the furniture scratching a varnished wooden floor. This also provides a little gap for air to escape and the ply also stops the bag putting pressure on the 5 pin lemo time code in/out.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey David W. I know a sound mixer who left his  Aaton cantar sitting on the passenger seat of his van and inadvertently spilt

coke-a-cola on it. Apparently not so water proof after all. It didn't work so well anymore . He had to send it back to France for

repair work.

Hey for cooling , couldn't  you use one of those first aid ice packs that you just sort of break something inside it and it has a

chemical reaction and it turns ice cold ? Sold at drug stores I believe.

KKS

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

I use an AO-2 bag.  I cannibalized a few items from my PEGZ-1 bag, including the orange recorder support which I then velcro to the top of my 442.  This inherently provides a little more airflow for my 744T (the wider AO-2 bag opens up the sides of the recorder).  And in as much as it's not convenient while shooting, on very hot days I simply lift my recorder up, tiliting it slightly forward to rest on the edge of the support and give the recorder full exposure to the air.  Naturally, I also shield the recorder from direct sunlight.  You'd be amazed at how quickly the 744T will cool down with just a few minutes of this kind of exposure. When it's time to go, just lower it back down into the support.  My 744T has gotten extremely hot, nearly unable to touch, but with this cooling down procedure, quickly returns to acceptable temperature.

Tom

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Is all this necessary?  Has anyone ever experienced a sound devices product breaking down due to temperature extremes?  They are supposedly designed for a wide temp operating range.  I mean what if you're shooting in Africa in 40+ weather, will sound devices not work?  I can't imagine they would design such a piece of gear. Does it auto shut-down at certain temps?  I've heard that some components are designed to run warm.. hard drives come to mind.  If I were in the market for a 788 I'd definitely go with the solid state version (as much for shock proof reasons than anything) and probably not think twice about temp. 

Hopefully Portabrace and Petrol are listening in..

Could be a good opportunity to design a new bag incorporating breathable mesh or vents of some sort purpose built for this kind of thing.  Those orange pillows that petrol puts in to pad everything can't be good for heat disapation. 

And by the way Petrol..  Please start making your gear in black or gray!!  I hate the blue/orange color scheme!  To the point where I actively look for other bags just to avoid it.. call me fickle but it's true.  Portabrace too..  Give us black!!  I generally prefer Porta's modular design with the mixer/rm bags, Petrols always seem bulky and over designed to me.  Haven't had a chance to look at Kata's stuff.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And by the way Petrol..  Please start making your gear in black or gray!!  I hate the blue/orange color scheme!  To the point where I actively look for other bags just to avoid it.. call me fickle but it's true.  Portabrace too..  Give us black!! 

Different strokes, etc. To me black is bland. Color is good but I live in S. Florida where blue & orange fits in with the local colors.

Eric

Link to comment
Share on other sites

" Hopefully Portabrace and Petrol are listening in.. "

probably not, but you could...

manufacturing and stocking in multiple color options would make everything more expensive; you could ask the manufacturers for a custom built variation in your choice of color, but expect to pay for it.  anyway, you know who to discuss that with...

" Give us black!!  "

Keep in mind, dark colors (black) capture and absorb heat, light colors (white) reflect heat away...

Kanguru's Cordura equipment cases (bags) came in assorted colors: I had my Nagra's in Blue, Brown, Bright Orange, Green. Red, and black;  had ENG mixers (FP's, cooper), wireless rigs, and AKS also in those shades... (the red was a dark red like burgundy)

Kanguru Cases left the field...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Just wait a little and upgrade your 788t to a 788tSSD, voila...

"Adding an SSD will only slightly decrease the 788T's operating temperature. The 788T does get hot by nature"--info came from SD

but whatever,the 788T is very hot,but also very tough,even the temprature goes very high(almost untouchable) still works great.love it.

and thanks again for all the suggestion&disscusion

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I love the colors.  People also complained about the CMIT because of the blue.  While I understand the fact that if makes it a little more obvious in reflections, it sure looks cool to me.

And as I previously posted, my 744T has endured some VERY extreme temperatures, with it becoming so hot I could barely touch it.  No problems so far.  Just picked if the 788T-SSD, but do not expect any severe temperature tests in the near future, and would not be able to make a comparison between it and the HD version, not owning one of those.

I also expect that with the CL8 attached in the bag, that the cavity created by this accessory would aide in it's cooling.

Robert

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I had some issues that my 788 can't power up my cl8,i sent cl8 back to SD and then they fixed it.They mentioned about something about temperature i can paste them here so everyone can know about this.

"The problem your CL-8 had was specific to your unit only. We haven't seen it before and likely won't see it again. The 3.3V power supply was sensitive to temperature for some reason, so after it got warm enough, the CL-8 would loose power and therefore loose connection with the 788T. The technician discovered this by applying heat to the power supply circuitry. The power supply components were replaced and the CL-8 works perfectly now even when heated up to temperatures much hotter than it will ever get in normal operation. This was a rare case of component failure and there wasn't anything you were doing that caused it."

"Adding an SSD will only slightly decrease the 788T's operating temperature. The 788T does get hot by nature. However, the temperatures that were causing a problem for your CL-8 were extremely far below the hottest that the CL-8 would or could ever become. It was related to a bad component in the CL-8's power supply that has been replaced and tested specifically by heating the component up to temperatures hotter than you CL-8 will ever get (But still safe and within specs). I am confident this won't happen to you again."

Cloud

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Issues of heat and stress on components are complex and beyond my skills but they involve more than just the immediate issue of whether the article will continue to function on an assignment. My understanding is that continuous operation at higher temperatures can stress the components and be a factor in premature failure. So a component - a transistor, a capacitor, whatever - might function even as it gets quite hot but it might fail earlier in its service life if regularly subjected to heat stress.

How much is too much is not obvious. Some components, I believe, may be intended for use in hotter applications and may be constructed and rated for higher temperatures.

Also, the external case of the SD recorders is intended to act as a heat sink for the components. Becoming very hot to the touch may be more indicative of effective heat control than it is of overheating. Its an area where some specific guidance from the manufacturers would be helpful.

Still, I think that making provision for optimal ventilation in bags and carts is probably a good thing for the long term health of gear. Partitions with ridges to hold fabric away from components so that air can circulate and carry off heat won't do any harm and may extend the life of the gear.

Perforated aluminum can be purchased at most metal suppliers for very little money-

http://www.industrialmetalsupply.com/location/sunvalley.htm

I think I paid about $30 for a sheet about 4x4 feet or 4x8 feet. It can be cut with tin snips and adhesive feet would hold keep it from direct contact with bags or recorders. A few divider sheets wouldn't hurt, especially in warmer months and warmer climates.

David Waelder

Hmmm.... I see that I have already posted essentially this same information on this topic. Oh, well, a case of great minds thinking alike. Or maybe not.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I been kicking this idea around for components that get hot on a cart for a while and I think it might work in a bag as well. My idea is to mount some heat sinks(like: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16835114091 but custom made perhaps) to things that are overheating. This might be a decent quiet system in a bag provided that you have low profile heat dissipators and that you at least have some sort of airflow.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...