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How do you work on insert cars? Do you work inside the cab with the driver or do you work on the truck outside with the director and script supervisor. While I was in New York I was introduced to putting my sound cart on the back of the truck. I had for years worked in the cab, cramped and cozy, this method requires considerable setup but allows the mixer some area of quiet space. Now, with shooting schedules being so tight they want to shoot almost immediately after finishing the car work. Do other mixers just put their carts on the truck and work from the outside?

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Around here the design of the insert cars would preclude putting my cart on the car.  I generally end up in the cab unless video has staked out that spot first.  There is nowhere really quiet on an insert car, the local ones make tremendous  motor  and genny hum in the cab.  Fortunately the insert car shots have been relatively simple, so I could do them w/ a bag rig.

Philip Perkins

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Thanks for the reply, no I'm referring to a complete scene with dialogue, and supplying sound to the  director, script, AD, video, and camera if necessary. Also, a communications link with the actors and the ability to have multiple microphones if necessary.

Regards,  Tommy

I'm referring to that sort of work too.  But if the insert car is small (as most are), then I have to do it with a bag rig in the cab.  I hope to someday work on a rig big enough to take my cart for all the reasons you mention, particularly not having to re-invent the wheel on all the monitoring and then be caught between having to de-rig the car and shoot the next scene off the car. (Hold up production or let the car guys throw all your rigging gear and cables onto the ground so they can leave.....).  I'm able to deal w/ all the mics and monitoring needed for a complex scene with my bag rig, but it takes some time to get it all wired into the cab, which sucks.

Philip Perkins

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How do you work on insert cars?

I never thought about putting the whole sound cart ON the camera car until one time I worked in New York as Tommy mentiones, and the Insert Car was an older Chapman vehicle that had a single place cab for the driver --- no possibility of sound or video to go there. The rest of the rig was just a big flat platform. So, along with video, director, script and so forth, we all loaded onto the platform. It was quite liberating to load the entire sound cart --- allowed us to work just as we would "on the ground" and when the Insert car work was done we were ready to continue work off the tow rig.

It is more and more common, even on the West Coast now, to do it this way and most of the camera car drivers are okay with it. The one thing that prevents this, of course, is when there is a crane arm fitted --- then you pretty much have to set up in the cab.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

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i've almost always put my whole cart on the back of the tow vehicle along with vid, dir, script etc and i think if i asked to go in the cab at any stage i'd get a few odd looks. yes it is probably a little harder to hear how clean your audio is but it's no better just cos your sitting in the cab! having the cart on the back is so much better in my opinion because everthing is there as normal, paperwork, keyboards, radio rack, monitor etc etc. most stuff i work on is fairly fast turn around, even the films over here shoot pretty fast, unless of course they have some of your american budgets... being able to get on and off the tow car with minimal time is the key. lift it up strap it on, it's that simple. the time for me is always in rigging the hero car itself. i have recently got a few cub 1's and they're a good improvement on the lav/viser combo and a neater faster rig. i have never had any issues with self noise and also use them with ph48 adapters on cables which is much nicer than the rm hop. would dearly love to get a blm 03c (the smaller one) as i have all the other schoeps bits but yeah they're pricey and i'd love 2 really so that's double pricey. next big job i rekon i'll get one tho - anyone want to sell one!? the cubs are great for general plant mics too, fast and easy to hide, sound better than the lav option etc, they are slightly directional though - is the schoeps blm completely omni..?

stories of other places these mics have been used (apart from insert cars) would be interesting, anyone....??

c.

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Since my experience in New York, I have gone to a second cart that is designated for insert work, we have separate batteries and cables ready to go so that it can be prep onto a insert car while we are working somewhere else. Since the normal nature is to have the second camera crew and additional grips and electricians go prep the tow vehicle I now have an additional utility sound person come in for the day to prep and wrap the tow truck. This helps with the anxiety of getting on and off the truck while the company is quickly going off to next scene.

Being on any vehicle I think creates a strange environment so I'm always trying to minimize the problems.

In regards to miking actors in a car, I sometimes resort to a two tier method. The best postion with open mics on the ceiling, dash, and or below: Schoeps with low cuts, sankens, and schoeps blm's depending on the vehicle, position of actors, and the various camera angles. With the added difficulty of being in a moving vehicle I will also radio mic the actors so if there iis a problem I have a backup to go to. Now of course this all changes due to the flow of the show and time that is availble to work.

Regards,  Tommy

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Guest tourtelot

Depending on the "boundry layer", the BLM03 is a true omni with the boundry making the other half of the mic.  I use them in picture cars all the time.

As for back or cab, I always set up in the cab.  I have a special rig that stays packed in its own case that makes this set-up; all the sound, video feeds, director monitor and director's talk-back, very simple.

D.

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I'd love to be able to work the way you guys have mentioned, but on my shows I only have me and a boom op (and yes the cameras dept is very well populated).  The old "Shotmaker" cars and their imitators have very limited space on the back, and there are the strict post-"Dukes" rules in effect--and they want to bring two camera asst.s,, the gaffer, key grip, AD, DP, director and on a commercial the senior clients, so they usually decide my boom op can't come anyhow.  (Add also 10 more clients in a "chase van" all of whom have to be able to see and hear the action while they talk on their cel phones...)  A dedicated "car" cart set up is the best answer I've heard if you are doing a lot of car stuff--being able to turn the setup over to the prerig crew (w/ a sound person added) sounds great and I might ask for that next time. 

Philip Perkins CAS

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Anybody ever set up ON TOP of the cab ? . Where the spare tire is kept. So you are "above" all the action. I worked with a mixer once that did that. A scene envolving 5 actors in a convertable with the top down.

I did a job that way last year.  Great view, but me and my antennas kept being clobbered by low-hanging trees.  It was also very tiring climbing up and down all the rigging while trouble shooting HMI ballast cable buzzes and etc.

Philip Perkins

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Hey Tommy, good to see you posting @ Jeffs site, your a smart guy for a sound mixer, I look foreward to reading your thoughts. I have set the whole cart  on the back of the camera car, but I normaly set up in the cab. I set the cooper on the half ass tray these rigs usually have, then find some space for the record deck, batteries, etc. It is always a cluster, but Marydixie n I have got it down so that we can stay up with the crew. Sometimes we go crazy and plant lavs in the visor or somewhere. We will radio the actors if they are exiting the car or something, but 99 times out of 100 we plant a schoeps between them and off we roll. The idea of a insert car rig is a good one and I have designed a few in my mind, but I guess I'm lazy cause I never got around to it.  The safty of the cab with its seat belts also appeals to me. RVD, I did a number of camera car shots with Mr. Webb, but I remember him doing it like us, nothing out of the ordinary, other than him being off the camera truck, But I could be wrong, I'll check with Jim Stube next time I see him, he did a million shows with Jim. I wish Jim posted here, he did it all and would be a great asset to the site.

Regards, Old School CrewC

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What a pleasure to hear from Crew, Richard, and Jeff.  I look forward to this forum and the exchange of ideas and techniques of our craft.  David Ronne's Car Com system has been an indespensible part of my rig;  it enables the Director to talk to the actors via a microphone/headphone to a speaker in the car for the actors. As much as I love one micprophone, I find myself going to a mic for each actor so that I can have some control on their levels. Usually two Schoeps hyper-cardiods with low-cuts, this lets me balance the overlaps and tweak the actor that needs that extra boost. 

Back to my original question; I have found being on the back of the truck allows me to communicate with the director more effectively.          Regards,  Tommy

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HI!

Thanks for the interest.  A key Grip built that set-up for me.  I asked for a piece of plywood, so I could make something to hold my recorder, He said " I think if you tell me what you are trying to do, I can come up with something better.  He had me build it out of cardboard first, so I could show him what I was trying to do, and then they came up with that!!  what a great job they did!    It just makes all the difference when you meet really neat people like that.  It only cost a 12 pack of beer. 

Coleman

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