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Sync For Extra Long Takes


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Hi All,

First time poster here with a quick question about recording sound, double system, for extremely long takes (hour to an hour 1/2).

Here's the workflow I'm going with (I think)

Recording mix and iso's in Logic on Macbook Pro through a Motu Traveller

Recording safety mix to 702T

702T TC to Motu Traveller (29.97ND Free Run)

Sync two trilevel sync boxes to my 702T

Sync boxes go on 2 Sony EX3's (23.976/not sure of mode setting yet)

I'm worried about drift since these are such long recording takes.  My question is would it be better to send a wireless TC signal from the camera to my Motu or 702T and use that as the master sync?  Since it's a multi-camera shoot I was thinking the sync boxes would be the best way to go.

I hope I haven't put up a redundant post here.  I've read everything I could find on this board.  Just looking for a little confirmation.

Thanks

Matt Sheldon

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Hi All,

First time poster here with a quick question about recording sound, double system, for extremely long takes (hour to an hour 1/2).

Here's the workflow I'm going with (I think)

Recording mix and iso's in Logic on Macbook Pro through a Motu Traveller

Recording safety mix to 702T

702T TC to Motu Traveller (29.97ND Free Run)

Sync two trilevel sync boxes to my 702T

Sync boxes go on 2 Sony EX3's (23.976/not sure of mode setting yet)

I'm worried about drift since these are such long recording takes.  My question is would it be better to send a wireless TC signal from the camera to my Motu or 702T and use that as the master sync?  Since it's a multi-camera shoot I was thinking the sync boxes would be the best way to go.

I hope I haven't put up a redundant post here.  I've read everything I could find on this board.  Just looking for a little confirmation.

Thanks

Matt Sheldon

In this scenario the 702T audio and the cameras will be in sync, but the audio from the Logic/MOTU set up will not be unless you clock the Traveler to the rest of the system.  The Traveler makes this pretty easy, you can use MOTU Audio Setup to tell the Traveler to clock itself to incoming word clock, and take the word clock out from the 702T to the Traveler's WC input.  This has worked well for me on takes to 3 hrs in length and beyond.  You can do as you say and take a wireless TC from a camera, but then how will the cameras be in sync with each other?  What you propose is the most accurate method I can think of, if you clock the Traveler along w/ everything else.

Philip Perkins

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I will have a TC reader slate for the cameras to use.

Also I forgot to mention I will be using the SMPTE Setup to clock the Motu from the 702T.  It's my understanding from previous discussions that I can use either the WC out via BNC or TC out from the 702T to clock the Motu and Logic. 

This is actually a 3 camera shoot but the third camera is a Sony EX1 and it has no genlock or timecode inputs so I'm just giving it a guide track.  It seems there's nothing I can do with that camera.

Thanks

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TC out from the 702T is an audio signal, not a WC.  You will want to output TC and WC from the 702T to your MOTU.

Slating both end of the takes is not a bad idea, but if the cameras have drift of any kind, it'll drift in and out throughout the long takes.  The good news is that if they are only using pieces of these long takes during editorial, they won't drift more than a few frames, and each cut can be slipped in post pretty easily.  So don't go crazy about it.  If it's a concert recording where the audio is key, the video cuts can be slipped to match the audio.

Perhaps someone with more prosumer camera knowledge can chime in...The EX3 has a TC BNC input and a "Genlock" BNC input.  The sync box has TC and WORD/VIDEO clock output.  TC is simply a point in time reference point, and the WC actually keeps the time steady.  So BOTH the TC and WC outputs should be sent to the cameras, not just the TC output.  I am guessing the "Genlock" input on this prosumer camera is the same thing as on the pro level cameras.

Robert

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Hey Matt, welcome to jwsound. Your profile indicates you have been a user since last August. Glad you are posting. All good advise you have received so far. I don't know if it is possible for your shoot, but a mix track to all the camera's could be very useful. BTW, if you get the chance, post a little about yourself and what part of the world you live in under the 'Who I am today' section. Jeff kicks me back 3 cents for every post over there. I am up to $4.73 so far. Thanks.

CrewC

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Thanks everyone.

I'll get them to rent the sync boxes and get everything going now that I'm certain of the work flow.  I'll also post more about myself here soon.  I don't want to deprive anybody of a paycheck.  Especially these days.

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My concern with your setup is Logic. I don't nor have ever used it. If you think it's solid for long live takes then cool. Many of us use Boomrecorder or Metacorder for their simplicity and reliability in the field

I have used it to record hour long takes before.  It has worked flawlessly and it has crapped out.  I am leaning towards purchasing BR for it's reliability and because it will recognize TC on a audio track.  Logic does not do that.  I'm probably going to pull the trigger on that purchase soon (like before friday).

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BR is a great deal.  Back in G4 days I thought it was important to have an app that was really optimised for recording only, simple, with very little graphic overhead etc., and I had trouble with using editing apps (like Logic) in live critical situations.  (Hangs, stops etc..)  Computers are so much more powerful now that I'm not sure that's an issue anymore.  In any case, all the TC and reporting and multiple drive features of BR (and Metacorder) are very worthwhile for sync sound production recording.

Philip Perkins

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give yourself some time to get familiar with BR. its fairly easy and i think the manual is only 20 something pages. you might want to route monitor return of your mix back to motu for monitoring(in BR there is a monitor setting/ click box and you chose which track/s get looped back). I dont use motu so dont know their software architecture to route daw sends to headphones but im sure its available. there will be a little bit of latency using this return path, but you will know BR hasnt crashed :) Now whether you hit record or not...

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The EX3 has a TC BNC input and a "Genlock" BNC input.  The sync box has TC and WORD/VIDEO clock output.  TC is simply a point in time reference point, and the WC actually keeps the time steady.  So BOTH the TC and WC outputs should be sent to the cameras, not just the TC output.  I am guessing the "Genlock" input on this prosumer camera is the same thing as on the pro level cameras.

Robert

Robert is correct, but his terminology is wrong. Video camera's do not accept (lock to) Word Clock. They lock to a video reference. WC is used to sync audio sampling clocks. I hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Charlie

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