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Feature Film Production Sound gear


soundwiz

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Hello Mr. Jeff Wexler,

Hope this finds you fine,

This is Hari,Production Mixer, from India

I had seen your excellent work in MI-3, I remembered your write up about the Octava mics

I am helping a friend, who is shooting a feature film in Africa in fall 2006, with a sound gear/setup

The budget is low,

Can you suggest a basic gear for such a shoot?

Recorders, mixers, lavs, boom mics (shotgun, hyper), tcslates, talkbacks and all accs

The locations is desert (exteriors) and some interiors and vehicle shots

I do not have much experience of feature film setup/gear? except knowing the individual equipment

The production is NY based, so rentals are to be from there, any rental agencies you can suggest?

You advice will be priceless

Thanks and regards

All the best

Hari

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I could make some suggestions but I am probably not the best one to advise since I am a total equipment junkie, addicted to spending most all of the money I make on equipment --- so I really, I sadly have no concept of budget. I do continue to recommend the Octava, although you will need a longer more directional mic as well. As for the recorder, the absolute best of the somewhat lower cost machines would be any of the 7 series recorders from Soiund Devices. I would also recommend the Sound Devices mixers, the 302 or 442, providing that gives you enough inputs. There are others here on this group who can probably offer better advice ---  Scott Farr has made it a point to become very well informed on almost all equipment that we use. I will post some more thoughts later --- I am off to work now.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

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Hi Hari,

this wasnt directed at me, but I work almost entirely on low budget films and know a bit about the gear that is too cheap for Jeff and the high end users to use or own.

Recorder:

Jeff really nailed that - the SD 7 series is great, and there are now the compact flash only models that are even cheaper. Other options to consider are the Tascam HD-P2 and the Fostex FR-2.

Mixer:

The Sound devices mixers are incredible, and Im sure your budget will mean an over the shoulder type mixer. The 302 is good, but the 442 is incredible. It also makes sense to aim for at least 4 channels when your recorder can handle two already (just a better jump than say 3 into 2). If he wants a cart based mixer, I've heard great things about the Mackie Onyx, which is also very affordable.

Mic's:

Of course, the 416 is always a good option, especially in African conditions (of which I know quite a bit about living here!), but if budget pushes you lower, the Audio Technica 4073a is considered the next best by many people. Jeff is (as always) dead on about the Oktava - cheap enough to take two, with one as a backup for the rough African conditions. Im sure you dont need to be told that wind protection will be crucial in the desert...

Wireless:

The lowest decent wireless is the Sennheiser G2 system for 500 dollars. Up from that is the Lectro 100 series, and from there up its the fully pro systems of the 2xx series, and 4xx series. The common upgrades on lavs are B6 or COS11, but if budget is tight the Lectro 100's come with the M152 lav which is considerably better than the supplied Sennheiser lav.

On talkbacks, Ive heard good things about but never worked with the ListenTech series (a cheaper alternative to comtek)... Phil Talsky knows about these and maybe he can give you some info.

I hope this is useful info, I also am a lower budget sound person, and in the process of learning and moving up the ladder.

Regards,

Tim Apter

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I also work in the lower budget area of things and have to agree with everything tim says, I have a tascam Hd-P2 and in extremely happy with it for the price and I have a 302 mixer which is the best as well. As far as Microphone choice though I hate the At 4073a I would go for the 416 or a Sanken cs-3 if you can affort it also for wind protection a new K-tek zepplin for under 400.00 is great as well. I won't spend any money on a talk back system or Comteks until you have the most important items already in your kit Good Luck

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The primary piece of unsolicited advise that I can give you (having done many low budg movies etc) is to KEEP IT SIMPLE.

Don't get into a lot of gear you don't understand, don't have a day on the movie be the first day you try something out--know what you can do and do that.  The SOUND part of your job will be hard enough, don't fight your gear too.  Try to avoid using multiple (any) wireless, get someone good for your boom operator and do all you can to support them.  Great small films have been made with mostly one mic on a boom and a recorder, and lots of attention and care.

Philip Perkins

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I'll agree with Whitney, the 4073a is definately not in the league of the 416, and you should definately try to go that route - a lot of great 416's sell second hand at 500-700dollars and thats a steal that makes the at4073a only a last resort if you ask me, but its still not a bad mic (though it is the bottom line for professional work, Id say).

Philip's post is the most valuable piece of advice - starting with a recorder and a couple decent boom mics and really working them hard before adding loads of toys is the best way to approach low budget work. Do your absolute best to stay AWAY from wireless unless the shot DEMANDS it (an example - three years ago when I was a student I used to run a backup wireless on each actor even when I had a 416 overhead. When we reached mix on all those films (about 10 films I think), I never once used the wireless.)

Good luck, let me know if he's shooting in South Africa, I live here and could help out with useful rental contacts and such in case any gear goes down..

Tim

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Do your absolute best to stay AWAY from wireless unless the shot DEMANDS it (an example - three years ago when I was a student I used to run a backup wireless on each actor even when I had a 416 overhead. When we reached mix on all those films (about 10 films I think), I never once used the wireless.)

Tim

Tim,

Even though it sounds as if you are relatively new in this business you have learned a very useful and important lesson regarding the use of wireless mics. I may add that it not only applies to low bugget films but all projects across the board. The wirless mic is a tool in our package that should be used only when needed. This subject would be a great thread in its self. I will soon be giving a seminar through the Union education program that address this subject in greater detail. It is a boom operator seminar but will address many aspects of recording "good production sound". Some of the advice for Hari that has been posted here is very sound. In most instances, less is more. Stress the importance of a good sound track for the project to your director and producers and get everyone on board in the beginning. Solve as many of your sound problems before you start shooting and good boom work with a good microphone should serve you well. Jeff Wexler and I have done many films using one microphone 80% of the time or more.

Good advice from Tim and good luck to Hari on your film

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The new Schoeps CMIT 5U is my choice for a "long mic". It's a very smooth sounding shotgun mic that retains the classic schoeps transparent sound quality. It of course suffers from some of the same limitations of all "long mics" but has proven to work quite well in certain situations, mostly exterior. Voice quality is superior and it has three filters to help taylor in difficult environments.The Sanken CS-1 or CS-3e would be my second choice as it matches rather well with the Schoeps CMC Mk41. However in many situations where you might think either would do a good job, I have found that the Schoeps MK 41 sounds and works better.

Don

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Hi Don,

thanks for the kudo's, I am very young and new to the business but I try to make up for it a bit with researching as much as possible from the likes of yourself and Jeff and the other professionals on this board. Im really grateful for Jeff setting up this forum, and giving young people like me (living as far away as South Africa!) the chance to interact with major players in the Hollywood industry.

Its great to hear your advice and I continue to kick myself that I cant attend all these great seminars you guys give!

Tim

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Tim,

Even though it sounds as if you are relatively new in this business you have learned a very useful and important lesson regarding the use of wireless mics. I may add that it not only applies to low bugget films but all projects across the board. The wirless mic is a tool in our package that should be used only when needed. This subject would be a great thread in its self. I will soon be giving a seminar through the Union education program that address this subject in greater detail. It is a boom operator seminar but will address many aspects of recording "good production sound". Some of the advice for Hari that has been posted here is very sound. In most instances, less is more. Stress the importance of a good sound track for the project to your director and producers and get everyone on board in the beginning. Solve as many of your sound problems before you start shooting and good boom work with a good microphone should serve you well. Jeff Wexler and I have done many films using one microphone 80% of the time or more.

Good advice from Tim and good luck to Hari on your film

This would be an interesting discussion.  I thought back thru all the big commercials I've done in the last year or so, and virtually all of them had to be done w/ wireless mics, practically all the time.  There was an assumption on the part of production that everyone in front of the camera was wired all the time, there was no interest in "perspective" in the audio, and the shots nearly always had some stunt aspect to them (hugely wide to tight while talking all the time, massively noisy locations chosen by deaf location scouts, car to car, boat to boat, multiple cameras, incl one on a crane, long telephotos of multiple actors walking thru rough terrain in the dense woods--on and on).  There was no patience w/ my boom op asking for a frame line, and less than no rehearsals.  I may have just had a run of bad luck, but it seems like there have been very few scenes lately that I could boom successfully, and that the directors et al don't really want me to--they LIKE the lav mic sound.  Rampant expediency.

Philip Perkins

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  • 1 month later...

I too live in the world of low budget - and I've found great success picking up great used equipment.  Of course, everything goes back to the factory for a check up before I take it in the field, but I've saved a boatload of money this way.  I tend to go the Trew/Coffey/Location route for used equipment, rather than eBay, but have gotten some good deals on eBay too.

For me, the only time I automatically bring out the wireless is when I'm working with a novice boom op (which I work with a lot).  I automatically will go to more forgiving mics, but still, I use the wireless to cover for the times when the boom op just doesn't hit his/her mark.

As far as the ListenTech's go, I'm loving them so far.  They have good range, tunable frequencies and my favorite:  AA batteries rather than 9V.  I'm trying to eliminate 9V from my life.  I've gotten more than 24 hours on the Tx and the Rx with the ListenTechs.  I've used them for camera hops for scratch tracks and had no problem.  The clip feels a bit fragile, but (knock wood) no problems so far.  Adding the carrying case they sell seems to make it a bit more sturdy (maybe just wishful thinking).  They are a bit bigger than the Comteks, and not quite as "stylish", but they do have an LCD display, so that may make up for it.  And, you can "lock" the Rx's, making it harder for users to re-tune them to a different channel (and then complain because they can't hear anything.) 

The only other thing I will strongly recommend to you - if you are going the bag route - is to get a good harness for your bag.  Once I figured out the best adjustment for mine, it has been a back-saver.  With my big belly, I still can't make all the connections by myself, but I keep practicing.  ;-)

Oh, and if your budget can afford it, look into a BDS.  I can run my 302 and my HD-P2 for a 10 hour day on one li-ion NP-1.  No more worrying about holding things up for a battery change. 

Hope this helps...

Phil

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