Chris Durfy Posted November 9, 2009 Report Share Posted November 9, 2009 Top 10 Issues with using a Sound Devices 788t / CL-8 in a Reality Rig While waiting on my 552 to arrive, I’d been using my 788t on the reality show I’ve been working on. While it’s a incredible device, there are some issues that fellow mixers should know about. My rig consisted of a 788t/Cl-8(firmware v1.76), 3x 411a’s, 2x UM400a’s for camera hops, 1x Comtek 216 and was NP-1 powered via a Remote Audio BDSv2. 1. No Return: The 788t has no built-in return. There are two ways around this issue. One is to reroute a return into one of the input channels on the 788t, thereby losing a channel or two of inputs. The other option is to use an external adapter that allows you to A/B the return and the output of the 788t. Trew Audio made me a custom return box for $110. That being said, I do wish that Sound Devices would have built a return into the CL-8. 2. Delay on Faders: There is a noticeable delay on the faders, especially when quickly ramping the knobs up or down. Apparently this is due to some short of digital delay inherent in the hardware design. It takes some getting used to. Sound Devices has told me they think future Firmware releases may improve this issue and actually solve this in the future. 3. No Definitive VU Meter: There are lots of lights and LEDs that give you visual impression of levels, but there is no markings for levels beyond that of the 0db marking on either the LED VU Meters or on the LCD VU Meters. (I am told by Sound Devices the LCD VU may change in future firmwares. Firmware v1.76 did introduce customizable VU meter ballistics so a user can program the exact level of each LED.) 4. Power Hungry: Simply put, the 788t likes the juice. It will eat up your lithium NP-1s at a rate much quicker than a 442/552 will. It is advisable to turn off tracks you are not using to help reduced the power drain. For a comparison, a 552 draws about 200mA, while the 788t running full blast can draw up to 1000mA. 5. Heat Buildup: There has been some reports of heat build up. I have not personally experienced these yet, but I haven’t yet operated my unit in the hottest part of the summer. According to Jon @ Sound Devices, the 788t can run very hot without any instances of lockups or problems. The chassis itself is designed as the heatsink. 6. Custom Cables Needed: You are going need some cables. First you’ll need at least four TA3f to XLR cables for the inputs. You’ should also have six more on hand for the outputs for certain situations. Also a 1/8†to stereo XLRs for the 7/8 unbalanced output. If you are going wireless to UM400a transmitters, I found that I needed two line level -10db padded TA3f to TA5f. I also found the I needed a non padded TA3f to 1/8†to drive a Comtek M216. I also had a custom 10pin breakaway snake made for the 788t with timecode and return built-in. 7. IFB / Routing Issues: Currently, there is no routing option for sending a summed L/R headphone output mix to an output for an IFB. Jon tells me this will be changing soon with that and a multitude of other routing options will be available in an upcoming firmware. Instead, a workaround is to send all channels to an output and then pot down the coarse gain to remove the mic from the IFB mix. You could also set up custom headphone routing to all channel in one ear, and then route that mix to the IFB output, but I prefer to preserve my L/R mix to the headphones. 8. No L/R Pan knob: The 788t allows you to send L, R or L/R without any pan options like the 442/552. It’s not a deal breaker, but when mixing a single channel, I normally like to split the track over two channels, with one slightly lower than the other. Jon tells me that the pan option will be available with the upcoming Panel Mixer for the 788t(!). 9. Arming Track/s interrupts Output Program: If you are turning on/off tracks to save battery/recording space, be aware that the ALL source outputs will be interrupted for about a second while the channel powers up. This is a hardware issue that cannot be fixed. The workaround is to NOT turn off a channel, and just the coarse gain down if there is a chance a cast member might come back into scene. 10. Occasional lockups: There have been some reports of random lockups by enabling certain functions in certain orders. Sound Devices is working on replicating the lockups and solving the issue. In my personal experience, I have seen no lockups of my 788t. 11. Odd Shape in a bag: Okay, I know the title of the article says “10 Issues†but I had to at least mention this one. The 788t/Cl-8 takes up a weird space in a bag. I prefer to put the CL-8 on the bottom of the 788t and pack the inside of my petrol bag with a number of the long orange cushions to support the bottom open space. The Wrap Up While none of the above issues are deal breakers, it is good to be aware of the issues. The 788t/CL-8 is a powerful combination and knowing it’s limitations can make a strong rig even stronger. Chris Durfy, ATLaudio.com --------------------------- You can see the original post and pictures on my blog: http://blog.chrisdurfy.com/?p=144 More information can be found on the Sound Devices website at: http://sounddevices.com/products/788t.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darryl Linkow, C.A.S. Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 "Jon tells me that the pan option will be available with the upcoming Panel Mixer for the 788t(!)." This caught my eye....Tell us more!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg sextro Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 i too have been told directly by jon that a mixer panel is in the works. that's about all he would tell me though. -greg- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 "Jon tells me that the pan option will be available with the upcoming Panel Mixer for the 788t(!)." This caught my eye....Tell us more!!! http://forums.sounddevices.com/showthread.php?t=1866 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 http://forums.sounddevices.com/showthread.php?t=1866 Locked link. Members only. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatfatjames Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 maybe it is time for me to let my fusion go and change to the 788t, cl8 and slider combo... anyone interested? 10 track fusion with newer version of lcd screen, power source and 2 set of output cable, which one set is 1 xlr and 5 mini ta3m? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Mayer Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Locked link. Members only. Eric Register, it's open to everyone. http://forums.sounddevices.com/register.php ---Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Register, it's open to everyone. http://forums.sounddevices.com/register.php ---Matt Thanks Matt but no thanks. I'm not a big fan of SD products, too small for my tastes. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 What do you use Eric? I have a Nagra VI, which is right on the borderline of being too big. Fortunately, I am a strong strong man and have no problem hefting the VI about. But seriously, I would be interested in a Sound Devices unit that had full size connectors for at least the inputs and the main outputs, rather than TA3. TA3 is good for IFB sends, tape inputs / outputs, etc... but would rather see real XLR cables for those OtS moments. In fact, addressing the "weaknesses" of the Nagra VI, I would actually like to see something like a 766t (either from Nagra via firmware / hardware updates or Sound Devices). copied from my Gearslutz post... CONNECTIONS 6 full size XLR inputs, would mean the unit is slightly deeper than the 788t. 6 mic preamps, switchable to line input, 48v phantom (no T) 6 direct out + stereo mix + WC I/O on DB-25 switchable between balanced analog and AES Stereo unbalanced Tape output on TA3 Stereo balanced output on full size XLR IFB output on balanced TA3 Private line output on balanced TA3 TC I/O on Lemo-5 FW/USB for keyboard, PC link, DVD burners, etc... 1/4" headphone output with pot CF or dual CF slot FRONT PANEL 6 gain / trim pots (single row across, not two like the 788t) maybe get rid of the LED ring and make it a dual concentric pot for gain and mix Nagra style hardware monitoring switched (enable/solo + LCR) all other menu / displays / buttons the same keep 8 sets of LED meters, 1 for each input channel and a pair for main mix out signal/clip LED for IFB out signal/clip LED for private line out I firmly believe that any location recorder that I use for non-reality TV based shoots should be 8 tracks, no more, no less. 6 ISO + 2 MIX. The main problem that I have with my existing recorder is that I can do 6 ISO, 5 ISO + 1 MIX, or 4 ISO + 2 MIX, but unlike the Zaxcom, Cantar, and Sound Devices 788t, it sacrifices input tracks when recording a mix, so can never record more than 6 tracks. Although I don't need something as small as the 788t, it would be nice to have something a bit more compact. The above unit would be perfect for OTS use. For cart use, an accessory panel mixer that had 6 linear 100mm faders, IFB send, PL send, pan, mute, solo, input trim (these override the main unit controls) and units should be able to be linked so that one could use dual 766t for situations that required more tracks (reality TV). A master section with master fader, IFB and PL main level, talkback, TC display, numeric keypad, maybe build in the DVD burner accessory into it too... all would be cool stuff and make me seriously consider jumping ship. There are just too many ergonomic issues with the 788t that would make it hard for me to convert over. I'm not saying that any one way is better or worse than another, it comes down to personal preference based upon what we have learned to use and become accustomed to over time. Sound Devices has a little bit too much buried in menus for my personal taste. Although the CL8 accessory does address some of these, I understand it is slow and seems a bit awkward to use. Having a mixer in the bag is less important for me and I'd rather see a single unit that had the controls all laid out like I want rather than strapping extra controls right onto the box... save the accessory mixer for cart users and make it a panel format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Tom, For those times when an OB recorder w/tc is required I borrow a friends 744t. For non tc requirements I use my Fostex FR2LE. Both with mixers feeding them. For an upcoming cart based project I'm leaning heavily towards a Fostex 606. It's my kind of recorder, lots of user friendly switches and buttons for instantaneous access and minimal menu use.. I'm not a "fly by wire" kind of mixer. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Graff Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 maybe it is time for me to let my fusion go and change to the 788t, cl8 and slider combo... anyone interested? 10 track fusion with newer version of lcd screen, power source and 2 set of output cable, which one set is 1 xlr and 5 mini ta3m? Hey James, if I need a second Fusion I'll let you know (but I doubt it). All I'll say is if you haven't done so, I'd recommend trying out the 788t/CL8 setup before deciding you prefer it. Because you might not. I've used both and prefer the Fusion...a lot. SD is a great unit, but I would certainly try before you buy. I'm sure the panel mixer will be great, tho'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 ...I'm not a big fan of SD products, too small for my tastes. Keep in mind that Eric is smarter than many of us in that he refuses to be a pack mule -- he works only with a cart system. John B. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 Keep in mind that Eric is smarter than many of us in that he refuses to be a pack mule -- he works only with a cart system. John B. John, I don't know if I'm smarter but my rule is if I can't sit and do the job then I won't do it. No sense having to pay a chiropractor to keep my back in shape so I can go out and ruin it again. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicole Hankerson Posted December 2, 2009 Report Share Posted December 2, 2009 @Eric Toline-If you get the PD606 please post pics of it in your cart and if you don't mind share your thoughts. I'm getting either that one or the PD204. Nicole Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fatfatjames Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Hey James, if I need a second Fusion I'll let you know (but I doubt it). All I'll say is if you haven't done so, I'd recommend trying out the 788t/CL8 setup before deciding you prefer it. Because you might not. I've used both and prefer the Fusion...a lot. SD is a great unit, but I would certainly try before you buy. I'm sure the panel mixer will be great, tho'. hee hee hee i still love my fusion too... used the 744T before and did not get the 788T.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 My complaint about the 788T is pretty stupid, but I don't like the headphone jack being on the right side of the machine. Headphone cords run down the left. It's on the left of the 744T, and with the way they sit on my cart, it's a hassle when I have to re-patch to listen to something on the 744T. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Doesn't that depend on the kind of headphones one uses? With the Senn HD 25 II - the cord runs down the right side. -vin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 Doesn't that depend on the kind of headphones one uses? With the Senn HD 25 II - the cord runs down the right side. -vin What about hp's with cords that are in a Y pattern? If the side that cord comes down is a problem, turn them around on your head, problem solved. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 My complaint about the 788T is pretty stupid, but I don't like the headphone jack being on the right side of the machine. Headphone cords run down the left. It's on the left of the 744T, and with the way they sit on my cart, it's a hassle when I have to re-patch to listen to something on the 744T. how about a short headphone extension to move the socket onto the left side of the machine? or even a headphone selector box? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ken Mantlo Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 I turned my 788 upsidedown and now the phonejack is on the correct side. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rich Posted December 6, 2009 Report Share Posted December 6, 2009 tried that with mine, but had to keep doing a handstand every time i went through the menu. gets very tiring after a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted December 7, 2009 Report Share Posted December 7, 2009 There are workarounds for every problem. :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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