Phil Palmer Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 Thanks Mark. I knew if I waited long enough you would chime in. Still don't understand why it's such a hot button topic... I might add, the back up has been at the request of many post production staff. Since I am set up to operate this way on my cart, it's only a matter of loading another disk. Very simple and takes no extra time at the end of the day. We use dual disk holders to send in the disks, one disk marked "Master" the other "Back-Up". I suspect this process will slowly disappear for me as more shows become digital, but until then...I'm good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stacysound Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 All post wants is another source in hand in case the disk is damaged. It would be great if the Deva could simul burn to the internal DVD AND the firewire device (Another DVD burner, HD or CF card). Maybe a shoutout to the Zaxcom boys could facilitate this... It would make our lives easier on set not having to run 2 machines and give post what they want. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 OK, I see. We are also talking about sending in two identical disks to telecine? I have been asked for this, esp from out of town companies who don't know me and are only shooting in my town for one or two days of a "touring" project (where the core crew moves from city to city). I can understand their caution, even though it is a pain. I recently did a job for a prod co working this way and brought my cart with all the bells and whistles to record one person--so I could have all my burners and drives going at once. I was at Location 2 of what was for them a 3 location day, in the 3rd city of an 8 city tour and they wanted to leave my location with two disks of all the audio I'd done--w/almost no waiting. Accidents do happen in telecine (damaged or misplaced media), and it IS possible for DVDRAM mirroring to miss a file under some circumstances (power issue, operator error etc), esp on a commercial etc where there are zillions of almost identical length files. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 " depend on a $75 DVD-RAM drive. " depend on a $75 mass produced, consumer grade DVD-RAM drive. " more and more editors will request a small hard drive instead of a DVD, " actually, CF has become inexpensive enough to be considered an expendable, as it is now much less costly than the reel to reel analog tapes considering the amount of audio they can contain, and even very competitive with DAT tapes. " We use dual disk holders to send in the disks, one disk marked "Master" the other "Back-Up". " why not call them both "Master" " they wanted to leave my location with two disks of all the audio I'd done--w/almost no waiting. " but if you want real "backup", you do not put the two disc's together... separate disk holders, and send them by separate paths... hand them one, 'overnight' the other...that is backup! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 " Maybe a shoutout to the Zaxcom boys could facilitate this... " Glenn is always very accessible. I'd suspect that processing horsepower might become an issue, but let us know what he says... BTW, SD offers the capability of triple writing...if you really feel the need for that... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darren Posted January 17, 2010 Report Share Posted January 17, 2010 QUESTION FOR MARK: Have you ever had this occur with DVD-R, or has it been limited to DVD-RAM? Its difficult for me to picture how a DVD-R that has been burned, and verified, would not be able to be read by post... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morantzsound Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 I also do a back-up system on my cart. I use a 744t and a Deva V. I have a mobile rig consisting of a 788T only, I have not used this and I am running an older version of software but Sound Devices told me that with the 788 you can assign different options to different drives, for example you can record a 1 or 2 track mix to your dvd-ram, a 6 track mix to your compact flash and a 8 track mix to your hard drive or mix it up any which way you want to any drives you want. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noah Timan Posted January 18, 2010 Report Share Posted January 18, 2010 Its difficult for me to picture how a DVD-R that has been burned, and verified, would not be able to be read by post... It happened to me just last week, actually. I recorded a few files on my 788T while "bagging it" on a long steadicam run and burned them to DVD-R at the end of the day. I believe there was a light physical scratch on the DVD-R that I did not catch at the time, since the subsequent disc in the spindle had one too. I used Toast to burn the files on a Macbook. The software confirmed a successful verification, and we packed the disc off with the DVD-RAM from the main recorder and sent it in. In the morning we got a complaint from telecine that on several of the files there were bursts of white noise, owing to file corruption on the DVD-R media. I checked the recordings on my drive, which were fine. I retransferred the files, this time to DVD-RAM directly from the recorder, and sent them in, and telecine replaced the audio with that from this new disc. It worked out okay, but the thing to remember about Mac/PC "verification" is that it only reports that the same specific optical drive that wrote the files can subsequently read them successfully. The laptop verification does NOT go on to verify whether or not any other drive in the world will be able to read them successfully. Most times it works out fine, but as my experience taught me, it does not necessarily prevent occasional hiccups like this. .02 nvt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 19, 2010 Report Share Posted January 19, 2010 QUESTION FOR MARK:Have you ever had this occur with DVD-R, or has it been limited to DVD-RAM? Its difficult for me to picture how a DVD-R that has been burned, and verified, would not be able to be read by post... DVD-R seems to be less likely to fail in post, but 90% of what post usually gets is DVD-RAM. If the drive used to make the DVD-RAM is slightly out of spec, it might be able to read its own disks, but other drives may not. The solution is for post to try more than one machine, but some small houses don't have a lot of them. I think the usual rules -- don't use cheap media, don't drop or scratch the disk, etc. -- usually will protect you. Again, I think we're going through a transition period right now where the whole post workflow thing is changing rapidly. It's possible that DVD-RAM disks may become as rare as DATs (or Nagra tapes) in another 3-4 years. Sadly, I think film is going to be a casualty of this process as well, but that's gonna take a lot longer to bury -- a decade or two at least. Bottom line: I don't think a backup disk should be mandatory. But if helps if the disk can be checked before it ships to post, just so you're 100% sure it's good. Running a second simultaneous disk is an additional expense and is more trouble, but that would be my preference on a high-end stage job requiring traditional dailies. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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