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5D Shoot Workflow


John Blankenship

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wow...that work flow is horrible (from the Vimeo video above). If an editor had to go through all of those steps just to get sync that would be a very, very bad thing. They should be able to look at the timecode on the slate, find that same spot in the audio file via timecode and tell FCP to sync. I sat with an AE today and that's all he did with my audio from last week. It took him about 10 seconds to sync 5 clips. I recorded 5 tracks on my Fusion 12 and there were two EX3 cameras on the shoot.

Well if it s possible to sync everything in one batch would that end up being simpler? I would always a tc slate anyway as safety net anyway but like how automated that all is..

Anybody ever used those horisa tc gen? How would u set it up to match proper with 5d?

A scratch track on left + tc track on right from zaxcom ifb rx would also be great. This is my plan for next year with nomad..

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"Taking too long to sync picture and track...?"

Apparently there is a new breed of AEs that have never worked with a Flatbed editor.

And I guess AEs are not interested in actually looking at the footage....

everyone is in such a hurry......

it won't be frame accurate anyway, they will have to adjust it into actual sync, so might as well

just us a clapper and "Forgetaboutit"

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(quoting Dave Lezynski)"The sound department will provide great audio tracks with accurate time code....... the camera needs to go fuck itself".

That's a T-shirt I'm too chicken to wear!

If it's not a lot of trouble, if the camera department is cooperative, and if the producers expect it, I don't have a problem sending some kind of scratch track to the camera. It's another 2 minutes of set up out of my life -- generally not a big deal. If it's a wireless hop, the producers gotta pay for it.

--Marc W.

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I've been doing a few jobs recently with post-house starting to do production - their assistant editor was trying to tell me that TC slates are obsolete because of plural eyes. All I could do was laugh. I figured just let him be in his own little world. Didn't even try to argue with him.

He'll be disabused of that notion soon enough.

phil p

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I've done a lot of DSLR short films on 5D and 7D and simply let the camera roll it intern mic just for reference to dialogue when they're listening back. To me, the pumping and breathing on the audio levels, and the fact that you can't monitor levels kills me. I would be extremely hesitant to even send wireless to the camera, because even if it's fine moosttt of the time, they're not going to go to the iso's when there a small clip, or the room tone just punched up through silence from the 'auto' level compression.

I've heard from other people that too often the iso's aren't used and the mix to camera is, so if the DSRL audio test for the setup weren't useable to my hears (Enough so that I would put my name on it) then I would fight tooth and nail to get them to see that it's not an option. I'd even offer to sync the audio myself if there issue to budget!

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  • 5 weeks later...

In my area, it seems like most of the jobs I've done in the past few years are 5D and 7D shoots. I just record sound independant of the camera, am happy I am not tethered to camera all day, turn in my files and go home. I record everything at 48/24 and turn over WAV files at the end of the shoot. No one has complained yet.

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I've done a lot of DSLR short films on 5D and 7D and simply let the camera roll it intern mic just for reference to dialogue when they're listening back. To me, the pumping and breathing on the audio levels, and the fact that you can't monitor levels kills me.

I can't help you with the monitoring, but the Beachtek DXA-5DA box will sorta/kinda fix the AGC audio levels. It "tricks" the circuit by sending out a very high frequency tone. I still don't think the 5D or 7D are good for anything but reference. I have heard from editors that a mix feed to camera works better for Plural Eyes than the camera mike, simply because our mikes are much closer to the subjects and sound better. (The Beachtek does have a headphone jack, but it doesn't tell you what the camera is actually recording, only what the camera is receiving.)

I know a shooter/editor who never wants to go with a timecode slate, probably on the assumption that since he's going to do the edit, he's already familiar with the material and they don't want to have another person on the set just for the slate. Almost everybody else I work with does go with the slate. To me, it's good insurance in case Plural Eyes goes out to lunch or there's some other issue.

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  • 2 months later...

Hello everyone. New to the site and love what you are doing here.

"Doing the best you can with what ever you have been given to work with" is a wonderful mantra especially if you can pull it off without attitude. It can, however, be a delicate tightrope dance.

When working with prosumer audio systems the "Auto-level" is also a delicate dance. To low a level being sent to the camera and the AGC pumps it up (along with the noise) and then when you get a spike of sound the AGC jams it back down. The trick is, in my experience, to do the dance the camera wants. To figure this out is a time consuming, trial-and-error testing process (especially with no monitoring in camera) and you have to have the camera and time to do it.

There are 2 levels to figure out: At what level the AGC starts to increase gain, and when it attenuates. Then avoid these levels.

I don't know what the 5Ds numbers are, but let's say that since "mic level" is the general parameter that any levels over say -20 will be attenuated, and that anything below -48 are boosted. Ok, if you can send a signal to the camera that is fairly consistent above say -30 and always below -20 the camera's AGC will be "bored" and stop trying to "help". A flat signal yes, but consistent and probably the "best" that that camera is capable of. Clear dialog, usable dailies playback and PluralEyes is very happy.

We have the technology to record hi-rez, low noise, hi dynamic range sound on our recorder and at the same time send a compressed mix using a 302 (or similar) to the camera. This way we can separately control and "see" the level going to the camera. Hard wire or wireless to camera no difference with this compressed and "monitored' signal.

I wouldn't want to use any prosumer camera sound in a final show mix, but it is fine for dailies and PluralEyes would be happy - and if the client uses it, well - know your client.

From Anna Maria Island, Florida,

Michael Stahr, Mixer

dpstahr@gmail.com

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The 5D (unadorned by accessory boxes) thing is very simple. Feed it a mic-level signal. I prefer using autogain on the camera so that the track never clips, makes a big fat waveform easily visible for manual syncing in an NLE, and the track is loud enough that if someone wants to hear a quick playback on location they can put their head next to the camera and hear it ok. By far the easiest way to get signal into the camera that I've found is via a small cheap wireless RX like G2. The short locking mini to right-angle mini cable that comes with the G2/3 is perfect for the job.

phil p

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  • 1 month later...

Lately, a rash of jobs done by people who do not want any kind of slate at all. 5D, F3, AF100, FS100, 7D etc etc--scratch audio to camera via cheap wireless, off we go. I make some descriptive notes attached to my file numbers, and pass the whole mess on....

("If this is how you guys want to work....")

phil p

This is exactly what's happening on a show I've been working with. They don't care for slate, TC, sync, or anything I suggest, besides a Rx on the camera. Post on the other hand can't figure it out even with their precious Pluraldespise.

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  • 1 month later...

I think they are being taught that timecode is obsolete and unnecessary. At least I've heard that from one instructor I've talked with.

OTOH, from where I'm standing, TC is just about the easiest thing to provide and with a jammed TC slate of one variety or another (not opening the Denecke versus iPad app argument here) used at least as an insert slate. I always thought editors liked that any given footage would have a marker in it that told you what the hell the scene and take were, so you could stay organized in post.

Whatever.

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I think they are being taught that timecode is obsolete and unnecessary. At least I've heard that from one instructor I've talked with.

That's the stuff of madness. I've often told classes of AFI and Columbia College students that have come through Complete Post and Technicolor: "timecode is the train tracks on which the production locomotive runs. Without the tracks... the train can't get very far. You can push it as hard as you can through sheer brute force, but it's a lot easier to roll the wheels on tracks than concrete."

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That's the stuff of madness.

I know. I had a rather skeptical look on my face when he said it. The sound instructor for the same film school is more in line with this group's philosophy.

Funny, my wife asked WTF is time code (mostly because I'm looking to get a lockit, and all she sees are the dollar signs). And I told her about syncing picture to sound, but also that script supers and other production people will use it for production notes, so its usefulness goes way beyond merely the sound and camera departments.

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  • 7 months later...

That's the stuff of madness. I've often told classes of AFI and Columbia College students that have come through Complete Post and Technicolor: "timecode is the train tracks on which the production locomotive runs. Without the tracks... the train can't get very far. You can push it as hard as you can through sheer brute force, but it's a lot easier to roll the wheels on tracks than concrete."

 

This is very good! I teach, film and sound, and this is a great quote to throw their way. Thanks for sharing this!

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  • 1 month later...

Hi all,

Sorry if it s been discussed before,

Client insist on having sound straight to 5d. I m gonna hop from 2 x lectro smqv to lectro sr to 5d. I m likely to be short in time so i d like to know in advance if i m setting something wrong.

Send tone to smqv (line level) adjust one notch before -20 led turns red.

Adjust 5d one notch or two above mute

Adjust reciever output level to match -20db (2 or three steps below the -12 mark)

Roll backup of course and slate.

Thanks for your opinion,

Dominique

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Hi Dominique. It's been a while since I fed tracks to a 5D (mostly pluraleyes these days) so things may have changed a bit with newest firmware. The camera's 3.5mm input wants to see a mic level signal. I think the SR can put out a -50 mic level when it's turned down (attenuated) completely (I think an unbalanced output is a bit lower). You should be OK with your method, but I have no direct experience with this setup. i have fed mono scratch tracks via G2/G3 at the lowest output level and it seems to work. +1 for the backup and slate. 

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" I m likely to be short in time " why ?? planning to arrive late ? or is it someone's unreasonable expectations ?? especially if they want decent audio on their toy...

I knew i d get this sort of unhelpfull answer. So if u wanna know i m filming a documentary with a japanese crew that i suspect have very little english communication skills so i doubt that i ve been able to get my point across that it s better for them to record externally and sync later. All they say is audio to camera so i m preparing here because it is a documentary and things go fast often. Putting a sr on a 5d is less than ideal but hey "it s their movie". Anybody wanna add something helpfull?
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