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Jeff Wexler

TC setting and Denecke slates

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The 2 HD jobs I have coming up, 1 on the RED, 1 on Genesis, they have standardized on 23.98 for everyone (seems like a good idea). I have 2 Denecke slates. The newer TS-3 I have set at position no. 4 which is "23" and seems to work fine being fed 23.98 from my Deva. The other slate is an older TS-2 and does not have a position for "23" so I set it at the position for "24". Fed 23.98 from the Deva it seems to be working but since there is no further verification (old style slate) I can't be sure this is correct.

-  Jeff Wexler

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Send (or take) the one older one, without a "23" position, to Charlie (Denecke) for upgrade! (very fast, reasonable $ calibration included). 23 = 23.976 = 23.98, and 24 = 24.000;  .1% difference in rate... it jams OK, but the DEVA TC and the SB-2 TC are running (keeping time) at (slightly) different rates, and will drift apart.

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Send (or take) the one older one, without a "23" position, to Charlie (Denecke) for upgrade! (very fast, reasonable $ calibration included). 23 = 23.976 = 23.98, and 24 = 24.000;  .1% difference in rate... it jams OK, but the DEVA TC and the SB-2 TC are running (keeping time) at (slightly) different rates, and will drift apart.

Agreed. It's the best $50 investment you will make.

Eric

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Hi Jeff,

Senator's information is correct. The 24 setting will drift from the 23.976fps TC. It is the same relation as 30fps vs 29.970fps TC.

The price for the software upgrade is $47.50 and includes general maintenance. Simply send it in to us or take it to one of our dealers (they'll send it in to us) and we'll take care of it for you. The turn around time is about a day or two.

Best Regards,

Charlie

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Fed 23.98 from the Deva it seems to be working but since there is no further verification (old style slate) I can't be sure this is correct.

Jeff, the cheap method I came up with in order verify timecode is to just use a cellphone camera to grab a shot of two TC windows. Jam slate #1 to the Deva; then jam slate #2 to the Deva. Put slate #1 alongside the main Deva screen and grab a photo. The two timecode displays should be exactly the same. Do the same with slate #2.

Try again in 10 minutes. If there's any drift, you'll definitely see it. I also use this method to check my SB-T external TC generator, and I use that to jam to a slate (taking the place of a camera). Be wary of the older slates that have a frame or so of delay. But even with those, the TC offset will be the same all day, and should not radically drift.

Robert Kennedy's cheat sheet in the most recent issue of Coffey Files is invaluable. I would talk to him to get some feedback, and also make sure you do some sound-sync tests just to make sure all is well. Also, be aware that the Red TC it shows on its display is always a little "out" compared to what's actually being recorded (some kind of internal delay/processing issue).

Worst case, they can always just go "film style" and sync up all the sound manually, just as they have for decades. I think in the real world, it makes sense for all cameras and sound to have identical matching timecode, but it's all up to the post supervisor and/or editor.

Beware of Red crashes, reboots, and power outages -- all of which can cause the camera to momentarily go stupid and lose its timecode jam. I've seen it do this and revert to Hour "0," but only rarely. The other cameras I've used (Sony F900, F950, etc.) are more reliable, IMHO.

--Marc W.

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Hey Jeff, I also own an old denecke slate. I just started using my SD 633. I know my slate won't jam from the 633 if the recorder is set to 23.98. I wonder if the slate will still show correct code if I leave it plugged in to the 633 and not try to jam it.

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Have you considered having Denecke upgrade your slate so it will generate 23.976?   If you put the slate in "reader" mode (if it new enough to have that) then it will show correct code off a line feed.  You just can't correctly jam its internal TC gen if it isn't updated for 23.976.   I still have one of the original Denecke slates (bought from Mike D himself) that has been upgraded 3 times, and does 23.976, so it is possible....

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2 hours ago, videojc said:

Hey Jeff, I also own an old denecke slate. I just started using my SD 633. I know my slate won't jam from the 633 if the recorder is set to 23.98. I wonder if the slate will still show correct code if I leave it plugged in to the 633 and not try to jam it.

 

Yes, if you use the slate as a time code reader.  In that case you are simply reading the external code and the internal generator is disconnected.

 

(I see Philip replied as I was writing this.)

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You can also simply use a sync box on the back of the slate... jam the box and go from the box to a 1/4" phono plug plugged into the slate.. bypass the old box on the slate with a newer one velcroed to the back..

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Hey all. Thanks for the info. I am planning on using 30 nd  TC anyway since I just heard that the dp is using a sony fs7 without time code. So, since I won't be syncing with a camera, 30nd should be fine, correct?  But I will probably send my slate in for an upgrade for future work that involves sending code to a camera. I appreciate your input.

 

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If you using the 663, I would at lease match the tc of the camera that way when they injest the files at lease they won’t have to retime the audio file to the camera tc. The f7s has timecode, you just can jam to it without the extra back.

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On 2/5/2018 at 8:49 PM, carbonhobbit said:

If you using the 663, I would at lease match the tc of the camera that way when they injest the files at lease they won’t have to retime the audio file to the camera tc. The f7s has timecode, you just can jam to it without the extra back.  I

On 2/5/2018 at 2:30 PM, videojc said:

Hey all. Thanks for the info. I am planning on using 30 nd  TC anyway since I just heard that the dp is using a sony fs7 without time code. So, since I won't be syncing with a camera, 30nd should be fine, correct?  But I will probably send my slate in for an upgrade for future work that involves sending code to a camera. I appreciate your input.

 

 

The sound is separate from the video. I think I can just go old school and record 30fps ND recorded on the sound track and sent to the slate. What does it matter that the time code or frame rate of the camera is different.? In post the sync mark will be the slate clapper. They will set the in point with the clapper and go from there. They will use plural eyes or something else to lock the tracks. The key point is the start point.....the slate clapper. No??

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16 hours ago, videojc said:

 

The sound is separate from the video. I think I can just go old school and record 30fps ND recorded on the sound track and sent to the slate. What does it matter that the time code or frame rate of the camera is different.? In post the sync mark will be the slate clapper. They will set the in point with the clapper and go from there. They will use plural eyes or something else to lock the tracks. The key point is the start point.....the slate clapper. No??

 

You've received good advice but you certainly have the right to ignore it.

 

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16 hours ago, videojc said:

 

The sound is separate from the video. I think I can just go old school and record 30fps ND recorded on the sound track and sent to the slate. What does it matter that the time code or frame rate of the camera is different.? In post the sync mark will be the slate clapper. They will set the in point with the clapper and go from there. They will use plural eyes or something else to lock the tracks. The key point is the start point.....the slate clapper. No??

Well, it matters a lot.  There is no reason on earth to cause confusion and possible issues in both ingest and eventual audio export from the edit system because you didn't bother to get your recorder onto the project frame rate.  Old school is exactly that--old, ie not current methodology, in which editors will assume everything is on the same frame rate.  PluralEyes is not"free" in a post production labor sense: it takes time and its accuracy has to be checked (am posting a film that was heavily PluralEyesed now, that has a lot of "close but no cigar" audio clips in the export).  Do a clap if you can, yes, and send a ref audio feed to the camera too if you can (WAY better for PluralEyes than camera mic audio), and do get your recorder onto the camera frame rate.  In any case 30 fps is not used much at all anymore in the USA for double system audio for video, the choices would be 23.98 or 29.97nd, whichever the camera is using (or 30 if that's what they are shooting).

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