Guest Mick Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 We've all had to deal with actors that mumble and deliver dialogue at a level that's barely moving the meter. Just today I have to deal with an actor whose delivery is so incoherent and low level that even a Sanken about seven inches from his mouth was unable to make sense of the unintelligible sounds that were passing for dialogue. In cases like these I thank Cooper for the mid range parametric EQ on my mixer. I really don't think that I could deal with some of these types of issues without it. I read a lot about mixers that shun EQ and disregard what I feel is a very useful tool in the kit. It's unfortunate that occasionally I have to resort to a wireless lavalier to record the dialogue for an ECU, but then again it's fortunate that in this day and age of increasingly advanced technology i have the tools and the experience to get the job done. Incidentally, using EQ to raise unintelligible dialogue up to comprehensive level is called, in my home town vernacular, "digging in porridge" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 My favorites are those who do this followed immediately by outright screaming the next line of dialogue, often as an unannounced "ad-lib". Not only does it make my cans orbit 'round my head from the SPL, but even the best limiters are no match for a hit like that, especially when I gain up to try and pull that previous whispered line out. I call those good rehearsal takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Hey Mick, I like the expression "digging in the porridge" though I hate the sitsuation you are describing. I don't get actors who mumble, or directors who let them. That said, there seems to be alot more of them these days, must be some acting class or something. I can't speak for others, but when I was posting about the use of EQing on a previous thread, I was speaking as a general rule of thumb, not a hard and fast rule. I think we need to do whatever it takes to record useable dialog, even RF mics on a ECU with alot of EQ if thats what it takes. I would be curious to know about your relationship with post and rerecording on CSI, do they have request about EQing, Daily mix"s, iso tracks, etc. Hope your recording day gets better, and I hope I don't find myself "digging in the porridge" Max Respect, Old School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mick Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 My other "favorite" is the wide and tight protocol favored by many of our directors these days. In the interests of time over substance it's a situation that is more the norm now than the exception. I must admit that I don't mind it so much anymore having two very talented guys on my crew to do the wiring with no supervision whatever, and I always try to mix in a little boom to naturalize the sound as much as possible. C, my relationship with post is and always has been excellent. This is the first year I've given them "iso" tracks as well as a mix, so we'll see how much they have to use them. I've always considered myself a mixer as opposed to a recordist so there's something about giving post too many options to "futz' with that doesn't amuse me all that much, but I guess that it's good to know that if I bugger up the mix then there's a fix for it. Incidentally guys, kudos and congratulations to Clarke King for his Emmy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mick Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 FWIW, Despite my adoption of digital technology I still have my boom man call "speed" and I still put down two tones at the end of every take even though we use two Devas. Go figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry long Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Ditto on the tones Anyone notice the lack of proper rehearsals lately? LL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mick Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Y'know Larry I have of course noticed, but ironically it's the lack of comprehensive rehearsal that has, in part, made me a better mixer. Getting it right the first time on the fly is something that can only be learned on the job. I am definitely not condoning the lack of consideration for camera and sound crews that no rehearsal shows, but it does have a slight upside. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Thats funny, My brother Moe and I do the same thing out of habit I suppose. I wonder if it's a old timer thing, or if others do it as well? Also if we yelled something other than speed, (I always said sound speed), would the rest of the crew know what the F we we saying? Also script always asks what roll am I on, and I say folder whatever and I get the strangest looks like I've gone mad. I guess new terminology will evolve sooner or later. I wonder if the younger members even know why we would put a single tone at the start of a take, and two tones at the end? perhaps the answer is in the question. Max. Respect, Old School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 Hey Larry, we use to say that the only way to get a good rehersal was to shoot one, which is true of course untill they print it and move on, in which case you better be good or lucky or both. I've been lucky and unlucky in this regard. Max. respect, Old School Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curleysound Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 OS, As a younger mixer, I tried to learn as much as possible about how the pros do it before I ever grabbed a pole, or turned a tape over. Of course, I try to learn new things all the time, and of course, a lot of learning comes from experience. This is why I love this forum, and RAMPS, which I haven't been on in a while. It's great to be a passive reader, and absorb a lot of the casual banter that the big guys exchange. It happens to be chock full of knowledge, if you know what you're looking for. So as long as we keep the dialogue up, and there are people who are dedicated, not only to doing it right, but to knowing why they might be doing it wrong, then our entertainment will be pleasant to the ears for years! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry long Posted September 6, 2006 Report Share Posted September 6, 2006 I'm cool with shooting the rehearsal most of the time.... but on this gig sometimes we don't have blocking rehearsals. You know, the director points and says " they go over there and talk" and the actors show up and everything changes , suddenly they are under a header or have some crazy noise maker as a prop. Then you wing through that crap printing like one of maybe 3, then spend half a day on an insert ! Just venting...... gotta love episodic. LL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philip Perkins Posted September 7, 2006 Report Share Posted September 7, 2006 I 've worked w/ a lot of directors lately who seem to feel like they have a very small supply of "magic" and if they don't start shooting as soon as the actor comes out of makeup then they'll lose it before they get a good performance. A lot of these guys might be better classed as "dramatic supervisors" than "directors", since I think they just hope that the actor will have memorized the lines and will come up with some interesting action on their own, semi improv, which of course they won't be able to repeat and thus necessitates shooting a lot of angles at once to get cuttable coverage. If this works for them, the scene cuts and looks interesting, they look like geniuses to production since they got the scene really fast, when in fact they were mostly just watching the monitor with the rest of us. These guys are openly hostile to the notion of building a performance thru successive takes--that looks tentative and fussy to them. and might requrie them to come up with reasons for the actors doing what they do. Philip Perkins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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