Rycote INV 7 with Schoeps 41.. unimpressed

[Derek H]

Hey!

Just bought a Rycote Invision mount (#7) to go with my Schoeps (cmc5mk41).  Using the GVC to mount the amp parallel with the pole and angle the capsule down..  for low profile operating..

This was supposed to be an upgrade from my PSC small universal mount..  I was really surprised when I had it all hooked up and discovered that it SUCKED!!

Handling noise was much more audible, to the point of making it hard to operate in an ENG situation.  I went back to the PSC mount as soon as I had time to swap out.  My best guess is that maybe the Invision mount is not designed to be used to mount the mic parallel with the pole..  I did not try using the mic at a normal angle though I will do more tests in the future.

At least with a purchase price of $70 I didn't feel too bad about it, and will keep it around anyway.  I'm sure it's a good choice for some other mics maybe..

Anyone else find that the INV 7 was a bad match for the Schoeps 41?  I never use the CUT 1 with the PSC mount and find I don't need it.. so I was thinking the same would be true with the Invision.  Note:  I almost always roll off around 80Hz at the mixer.

That said.. I do use the new softie mount (uses invision lyres with the mic bar thing) and have been impressed with its performance on my shotguns but this was not a comparable experience.

[Jeff Wexler]

Anyone else find that the INV 7 was a bad match for the Schoeps 41?  I never use the CUT 1 with the PSC mount and find I don't need it.. so I was thinking the same would be true with the Invision.  Note:  I almost always roll off around 80Hz at the mixer.

I have several of the Invision mounts and have used them with the Schoeps, GVC parallel to the pole as you describe. It has worked just fine. I also do not use the Cut-1 but do always have the High Pass in on the input. I can't say for sure that I am using the Invision-7 mount. There was a period of confusion in the beginning when Rycote purchased the company that designed the original Lyre-style mount, not exactly clear which mount was best for each microphone. It is quite possible that the INV-7 has suspension that is not the right for the Schoeps mic.

I am going to see if the model no. is on the mounts I have and also do a few tests to see if I can make them perform badly.

-  Jeff Wexler

[Derek H]

Thanks Jeff,  according to rycote literature the 7 is a match for the Schoeps with or without the CUT1.

The one I have is all black in color, I understand a higher rigidity version is also available but that is supposedly gray in color.  I assumed this was for extra heavy mics..

[studiomprd]

I'm also very happy with my Inv-7, using it with several different mic's including Schoeps...

[Jeff Wexler]

Thanks Jeff,  according to rycote literature the 7 is a match for the Schoeps with or without the CUT1.

The one I have is all black in color, I understand a higher rigidity version is also available but that is supposedly gray in color.  I assumed this was for extra heavy mics..

I am going to try the mounts that I have, for myself, since my only real experience has been from the mixer's end (I'm not booming and mixing). I will let you know what I discover.

-  Jeff Wexler

[Derek H]

I wasn't totally worthless with the INV 7 it just had significantly more noise than with the PSC mount..

Wasn't able to man-handle the boom as much.. which is sometimes necessary in run-n-gun..

Hey Senator.. What does your hat say?

[Eric Toline]

Thanks Jeff,  according to rycote literature the 7 is a match for the Schoeps with or without the CUT1.

The one I have is all black in color, I understand a higher rigidity version is also available but that is supposedly gray in color.  I assumed this was for extra heavy mics..

The grey lyres are for use with (in my case at least) the Sennheiser Baby Ball Gag & furry. The extra weight of the BBG&F is offset by the stiffer suspention. A word of caution, the grey lyres are a pain to get a mic into especially the Senn 50.

Eric

[jason porter]

I am with you Derek,  I don't think it is any better than the small PSC mount, even a little worse!

The lyres seem to produce alot of squeeks.

[Jeff Wexler]

I just tested one of my mounts, shook the pole around a lot more than I have ever seen any boom operator do, and it all seemed good. I am posting a little picture of how I had it set up --- this is the way Don Coufal usually sets the mic up with a GVC. I know others do it differently, some having the pole under the mic/mount instead of over. I am thinking that it may be the way the cable lays in your setup when the mic is turned on its side vs. the standard orientation. Did you play around a bit with redressing the cable that plugs into the mic? Also, look to see how the base of the mount relates to the body of the pole, there could be some contact there.

[André Boisvert]

Using a lyre with a CMC6/CUT1/MK41 here. Other than having to drill and tap a very old Rycote base to accommodate it, I'm very happy with it. Better than their old stuff. Not a peep nor a squeak.

And Jeff, ever thought of priming your garage walls?

[Derek H]

Thanks for the picture Jeff,

I'm pretty careful when it comes to the cable dressing; I use an additional shorty cloth-covered cable in-between the mic and the boom pole's female XLR which is held by the Rycote XLR clip.. 

Adds a little extra weight to the pole but helps to isolate it from the internal cable.

[greg sextro]

yeah,

I got one of these for a schoeps, and didn't like it.  With and without a cut 1.  I still prefer the cheaper ktek mount that I have.  I did, however, discover that it works rather well for my cs-3e.  I sometimes have to finagle it a bit with a softie on it - just to make sure the parts aren't hitting each other,  but otherwise, with a foamy, it's great.

-Greg-

[Alan H. Chang]

I also switched all my mounts to the INV7.

My mk41 are oriented the same way as what Jeff had posted, except that my Neutrik is straight w/ the thinner mic cables.  Works a lot better than my K-teks.  I've also mounted my AT4073a, which is known to be one of the hottest and most sensitive microphone that I've worked with, in the INV7 and what a different from my KSSM!  Must be the boom operation.

[Matthias Richter]

when using the MK41 with GVC in a INV7 I hear much more handling noise than from my CMIT in a Cinela. Not so much from bad handling but just plain body / arm shakes. Hard to describe but even in a totaly steady scene without any movement I hear this little inner-body moves from the boom op. And yes I have a 80Hz roll off engaged.

Matthias

[hemmerlinj]

Are most you guys using a cabled boom with your CMC/41 mics?  I've found that no matter what mount I use there is noise from the cable.  I try not to use my cabled boom with my CMC setup.  I've tried with both the invision as well as the PSC.  I tie the cable with a bongo tie as well as use the cable retention clip on the invision as well.

As far as operator body movement noise I always make my boom ops(when I have one) wear soft cloth gloves.  Whether they want to or not.  That always seems to help a lot.

[Jeff Wexler]

Are most you guys using a cabled boom with your CMC/41 mics?  I've found that no matter what mount I use there is noise from the cable.  I try not to use my cabled boom with my CMC setup.  I've tried with both the invision as well as the PSC.  I tie the cable with a bongo tie as well as use the cable retention clip on the invision as well.

Could you clarify what you mean by "cabled boom"? All of my boom poles (a collection of vDB and K-Tek) have straight cable inside fishpole and I have the original Gary Woods Quick Release for the mic mount. The tops for the Quick Release all have short pigtails with various kinds of cable (thin, thick, cloth, right angle connector, straight connector, etc.).

[hemmerlinj]

Could you clarify what you mean by "cabled boom"? All of my boom poles (a collection of vDB and K-Tek) have straight cable inside fishpole and I have the original Gary Woods Quick Release for the mic mount. The tops for the Quick Release all have short pigtails with various kinds of cable (thin, thick, cloth, right angle connector, straight connector, etc.).

Guess I meant internally cabled with a coiled cable, but straight as well.  I haven't tried the straight internal cable, only coiled.  Both of the poles I use for ENG have coiled cables inside.  The other long pole I have has no cable.  Which is what I prefer for films or commercials.

[soundtrane]

I have been using invisions with my sanken cs3e and mkh50, i have the grey versions to use with ballgags. never had a problem with them, foudn they work very well. Eric, the grey mounts are stiff initially, but loosen up a little with usage and time.

-vin

[studiomprd]

" Hey Senator.. What does your hat say? "

it says what I can no longer type on jwsound.

BTW, does not apply to this discussion!

[thebrengun]

I've been using the Invision 6 with no problems.  I noticed much less noise vs. the PSC mount once I switched over.  Seems like I can get away with some pretty crazy movements!

[Alan H. Chang]

Are most you guys using a cabled boom with your CMC/41 mics?  I've found that no matter what mount I use there is noise from the cable.  I try not to use my cabled boom with my CMC setup.  I've tried with both the invision as well as the PSC.  I tie the cable with a bongo tie as well as use the cable retention clip on the invision as well.

As far as operator body movement noise I always make my boom ops(when I have one) wear soft cloth gloves.  Whether they want to or not.  That always seems to help a lot.

Both cabled and non-cabled booms w/ gloves on.  I noticed a drastic improvement from my usage with the KSSM and have never imagined myself shaking the boom so hard with the INV mounts.  I went wild with the shake'n toss, less handling noise.

[berniebeaudry]

I just tested one of my mounts, shook the pole around a lot more than I have ever seen any boom operator do, and it all seemed good. I am posting a little picture of how I had it set up --- this is the way Don Coufal usually sets the mic up with a GVC. I know others do it differently, some having the pole under the mic/mount instead of over. I am thinking that it may be the way the cable lays in your setup when the mic is turned on its side vs. the standard orientation. Did you play around a bit with redressing the cable that plugs into the mic? Also, look to see how the base of the mount relates to the body of the pole, there could be some contact there.

Jeff,

Thanks for the photo.  I just got the Inv 7 for an Audix SCX-1 hyper that I just got for tight interiors.  This mic has no internal low cut filter and I was getting some low end rumble and handling noise even with the lyre mount and the low cut on the mixer.  I had to be very careful with my movements and I was frankly a little worried about using this mic the way I needed to.  Today I tried off setting the mount as you show in your picture so there was more tension on the lyre portion of the mounting.  The mic is very short so there isn't much room to do it, but it made a big difference in the performance of the mount.  It would seem that if the lyre is straight up and down, the mic moves too much and handling noise/rumble is more likely.  Something new to learn every day and I so much appreciate this forum for just this type of thing.

Bernie

[soundtrane]

From Simon Davies (Rycote)

We watch the forums closely, and in some cases in the past have actually altered products after getting negative comments. Luckily, we're small enough to remain flexible in our manufacturing. The reality is, the numbers of products we produce is very low in general manufacturing terms. So because all our parts are all designed & hand made here in Stroud, we can literally change parts between batches.

Being honest, the hardness choice of the InVision lyres is always a compromise, as we've tried to make products with "universal" capabilities. So the InVision will work well with various lengths, diameters & weights of microphone. However, the lyre can actually be adjusted in thickness, shore hardness & size to control the compliance to very tight tolerances. Having lots of different models of suspension made specifically for different mics would difficult for our sales distribution. However, we are always happy to help out people if they are using a specific mic and not changing it over regularly with a different model.

We can actually supply the lyres in different hardnesses which great affects the performance. The standard black lyre on the INV-7 and modular suspensions in 72 shore hardness, and the grey lyres are 82 shore. But we can go down as low as 55 shore, which is really soft. We do this for a couple of OEM's for light shotgun's like the DPA 4017. We've also done this for some Schoeps CMC customers, with 62 shore hardness lyres. If anyone needs these we can supply them to be switched with the standard black lyres. We can even mix & match hardness on the lyres - so a slightly stiffer lyre at the balance point & a soft lyre for damping. Just drop me a line :-)

[studiomprd]

see why..?

[jonathan chiles]

I am one person that Simon at Rycote helped out by supplying the softer lyres for my INV 7 for my Schoeps CMC641.

These softer lyres work brilliantly for the Schoeps without the CUT1 or GVC. When I do use the GVC I use my standard INV 7 to compensate for the extra mass and have not had any problems with handling noise using my internally cablked K-teks.

Jon Chiles