Rental Rates

[Eric Toline]

As I read all of these threads about rates for labor & rentals, it occours to me that although we seem to love what we do more than anything else (except for tall stunning blonds with martinis and a come hither smile wearing a little black dress...but I digress) we seem to forget that what we do is a business.

As such it should be conducted as a business. In our world negotiations are like a stareing match to see who blinks first. Set your hourly rate and equipment rental rates with a maximum percentage of what you'll deduct for the job and stick to it.

Lowering your rates drastically just to get a job is unfair on two counts. It's unfair to the other mixers in your area who when they learn about you're undercuting the going rates might just want to convince you of the error of your ways and it's unfair to your other clients who pay you lots more for the same caliber of work.

The real downside is that you wil become known as the goto guy for cheap rates and that's what you'll always get.

Eric

[Eric Toline]

Hi Eric,

Thanks for the reply.  I guess I wasn't entirely clear with my questions.

What I was really asking was, if my day rate is $400/10, how does everyone specifically calculate OT?  (I understand the principles of OT, just trying to understand what "industry norms" are).  So in this scenario, would it be appropriate to say hours 11 and 12 would be at $60 (1.5 x) per hour and 13+ be at $80 (2.0x)?<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Yes. In some cases production may only want to pay 1.5x for all time after the agreed to day but basically you've got it right.

Remember that OT is a penalty for production not being able to manage their time efficently.

I love the line that goes; " A lack of planning on your part, does not constitue a crisis on my part".

Eric

Thanks again!

Phil

[Ferdi]

"Thanks for the reply.  I guess I wasn't entirely clear with my questions.

What I was really asking was, if my day rate is $400/10, how does everyone specifically calculate OT?  (I understand the principles of OT, just trying to understand what "industry norms" are).  So in this scenario, would it be appropriate to say hours 11 and 12 would be at $60 (1.5 x) per hour and 13+ be at $80 (2.0x)?"

Hi Phill

with all the ENG work I do, my day rate and OT is the same as yours. $400 for 10 hours, hours 11 and 12 would be at $60 (1.5 x) per hour, 13 through 15 at $80 (2.0x), and and 16 and over at $120 (3.0x). I also charge the production

70% of my day rate for travel days. I hope this help.

Take care,

Ferdi

[Eric Burge]

Great explanation, Mr. Toline. I fully concur. I knew there was a reason I liked you from the start. Even so, I do plan to trounce you out at the range come next NAB, but that's another thread...

As SOP, OT should always be based on an 8 hr day even for non-union jobs...because that's how it's done if it is union or if paid by any of the outsource payroll companies, and considered by OSHA, IRS, and most any other govt agency. Therefore, if quoting for a 10hr day, divide the total by 11 for the hourly rate. IOW, 8hr flat + (2hr x 1.5) OT = 10hr day. That is the standard. Don't forget to include at least 1/2hr for lunch off-clock. If it is a "walking lunch" that changes things some, not in terms of work-flow, but in terms of fee structure. So you're really talking about a 10.5hr day at whatever rate. Use 10 (11 really) for calculating. If you're smart and deal memos are involved, you'll have a garanteed 10hr just for showing up. I don't do 1/2 days...except now and then for friends...because my full day is shot anyway whether I'm on set or on bar stool for the remaining hours. I can't take another job that day so for billing purposes it comprises a full day. If it's a really short, short-notice not-for-profit gig for a CLOSE friend...and very convenient for me...like a 1/2hr interview within a few blocks from home, sometimes I'll dismiss being paid at all...so as to not compromise my established day-rate, pro bono work if you want to call it that. If it's a commercial job however and I am to get paid, I want my full day-rate, period.

Rental is similar. I may get OT, but gear does not. I may get days off (when on a traveling job) but gear does not. I discount for travel/whether days, but gear does not. Gear is rented portal-to-portal, by the day, week, or whatever. In reality all of this has to be negotiated with the end result ($) in mind. The point is that if one knows how this game works cross-industry in the real world it has a way of adding dram (that's for you, Eric) to your negotiating fire power. It's pretty simple, really, and that is what Mr. Toline is doing well to convey. Location sound is a business, somewhat offbeat for sure, but like any other if you choose to look at it as such...and you should. You can work all you want for only gear and beer, and live off of craft services, but what is the point at the end of the day? Is this a career or a hobby? I don't know about anyone else, but I don't shell out the big bucks for insuring my hobbies. And the day I can cover my sound package with my home owner's policy and the mortgage company gives me a holiday allowance is the day I'll work for cheap...

EB

[tim apter]

Ah! Rates are so much higher in the States!

For ENG here the standard rate is around $220 including gear. Useless. Some guys make only $140 without gear.

OT in South Africa is 10 hour day, hour 11 to 14 at 1.5x, hour 15 to 16 at 2x, and thereafter 3x.

Useless, but it kills me how little we make compared to you guys (and it IS a standard, not an undercutting thing) yet how expensive our gear is!

In perspective, a Sound Devices 302 mixer costs $1200 for you guys (4 days work). Here they cost the equivalent of $2400. This is 11 days work for the same item at our rates.

so dont be too bummed out guys. the first world is a wonderful place!

Tim