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Pro tools HD 8 with Hardware emulator - editing with macbook in your garden...

Daniel Bohm

By Daniel Bohm
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Guest BobD

Guest BobD

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Nice work Jeff....  I said before on this site, I think it was to Mr. Israel....  starts with an "O"....  Really popular in Europe and other parts of the world to simply steal and "crack" programs, phones and DVDs.  I HATE the concept of doing that... In the long run it ruins the industries, and the people that work so hard to develop those products worldwide.  You might as well hold up a store... same thing... 

  Whenever I am in Europe, throngs of people brag about the practice as they tout their supply of thousands of pirated movies, music and programs... I must add, here too, although people seem a bit more reserved about the practice.

And, Reggel,  It's not just Jeff, it's Most of us on this site... if not all...  No honor=NOTHING....

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David A-Ribeiro

David A-Ribeiro

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Really popular in Europe and other parts of the world to simply steal  and "crack" programs, phones and DVDs.

I am probably not the only jwsound member (European, American, or otherwise) who feels this reflects an opinion based on prejudice and/or limited knowledge of the facts, and therefore potentially offending. Nothing honorable about that.

I agree with what Jeff has written, and in my opinion if there is something worth discussing that is what are the consequences of this and what are the probabilities / consequences that PT goes native. Are we just going to pretend this is just another cracked programme?

Dave 

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Guest BobD

Guest BobD

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I am probably not the only jwsound member (European, American, or otherwise) who feels this reflects an opinion based on prejudice and/or limited knowledge of the facts, and therefore potentially offending. Nothing honorable about that.

I agree with what Jeff has written, and in my opinion if there is something worth discussing that is what are the consequences of this and what are the probabilities / consequences that PT goes native. Are we just going to pretend this is just another cracked programme?

Dave

David,

Limited knowledge of facts my ass,

  Hey, I spend 2 months a year living in Eastern Europe... For 15 years... I often visit many countries, and have worked in many... I have a hundred friends there, and a hundred friends of friends.. and travel extensively there. My opinion is based on what I see and hear there in relation to this rather open practice...  Not a blanket statement in the least...  I don't think I met anyone there who "buys" their Movies or DVDs... Music as well...  Much of this IS economic related, when your pay is @ $400 a month, a $20 DVD is expensive!!! This does play into the picture... It is "really popular" to do so...

  Here , in the states, with my hundreds of friends, family members and colleagues, I seldom hear anything about cracking, or pirating of goods or software...... At least in any of my circles.... Does it happen, yes, a great deal, but it is not the same level of hacking...  or pride in doing so... there seems to be a different mindset OUTLOUD.. It is NOT as accepted... Those are MY observations, sorry you took offense...

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Guest BobD

Guest BobD

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Europe sucks... :(

Didn't like the music either!

I guess if they had a (k) Pro Tools it would had been much better...

And Bob... Eastern Europe.. please that like referring to Mexico as America :)

//Christian

I will attempt to make sense of the gibberish, But, Europe does not suck....

To throw that out as an example of music from Europe is too dumb to even comment on....

Don't think that things West of Berlin are so hunky dory....  I've seen things in "Western" Europe that made my head spin...  Just as I have seen things here in the states that have done the same..  You tell my family in Czech they are second class citizens to Western Europe, first they will laugh at you, then they will kick your ass.... Here's your smiley!!!  ;)

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Jimmy Tuffrey

Jimmy Tuffrey

Posted
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Allow me to get this discussion back on track.

There are a lot of people who have pro tools le with an m-box and macbook pro and who would like to be able to work on the laptop on the move easily with out the m-box attached. Digi offered us the chance of giving then £200 more for an M-box micro. Basically a dongle with a headphone socket. A dongle for a program we have already bought.

So I am not surprised that people feel a cracked version of pro tools which allows the use of the onboard sound hardware in the laptop to be good news. A lot of those people have legitimate copies of pro tools and are digi customers/clients. People just want a better deal from them. Finances are limited and is it so wrong to want to use the program with out the blooming m box attached..? (It's not exactly small). They should issue registered users a dongle/m-box micro for a lot less than they charge.

Also I think most professional people in England have had bad experiences with cracked software and are trying to use legitimate versions. Again there are serious issues with cost.

I myself know a lot of people who have learnt software through cracked or copied versions and have bought it when they have found a way to make money through using it. You simply can not buy it all.

Interestingly, why is everything nearly twice the price in Britain as it is in the states? This does not help the situation.

I also agree with and anticipated the response to the posting of the torrent here at Jeff's site. This is not the place for such links.

best regards

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Philip Perkins

Philip Perkins

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Using a piece of cracked software for what you do for a living, like professionally, is stupid.  You are a disaster waiting to happen to some client's job.  If you can't afford PT then use something else you can afford to legally own and get support for until you can.  Amateurs and deluded wannabes use cracked software on jobs.

Flame away, thieves.

Philip Perkins

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DBurnette

DBurnette

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Posted

Using a piece of cracked software for what you do for a living, like professionally, is stupid.  You are a disaster waiting to happen to some client's job.  If you can't afford PT then use something else you can afford to legally own and get support for until you can.  Amateurs and deluded wannabes use cracked software on jobs.

Flame away, thieves.

I agree with you, stealing software is bad. Using unreliable cracks in a production environment is downright stupid. Cheating companies, even if the software is priced-to-gouge just hurts the industry (us) in the long-term, as does stealing films and music.

That being said, I have (something like twice) installed and used cracked software in a professional environment, though not recently. We owned a license to the software, but the cracked version was significantly easier to use with the fairly routine system configuration changes. The cumbersome protection was causing more problems than the crack.

I've also taken large sound libraries and 'cracked' them, to put them into usable sampling environments. Sometimes, older libraries are still useful, just not on mid-90's E-Mu samplers. Again, we were fully compliant, and owned licenses bought either directly from the manufacturer, or from an authorized dealer.

I've even (again, only a few times, in pre-iTunes days), downloaded music at midnight needed for studio projects due quicklike, as references to use to cover songs. As of the next business day, I was at the local record store, buying CDs though.

Did I like what I was doing? No.

Was I in violation of the software ToS? Yes. No question.

Did I make sure I was in absolute unimpeachable compliance with the number of licenses we needed? Yes.

Would I do it again? Only as an absolute last resort, after I had tried working with the manufacturer to solve the problem.

Would I consider using a cracked/hardware-free version of PT HD if I already owned a license? Probably not, but Jimmy Tuffrey makes a good point about digi license flexibility.

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Marc Wielage

Marc Wielage

Posted
Posted

Using a piece of cracked software for what you do for a living, like professionally, is stupid. You are a disaster waiting to happen to some client's job. If you can't afford PT then use something else you can afford to legally own and get support for until you can. Amateurs and deluded wannabes use cracked software on jobs.

I agree 110%.  2thumbs.gif

These carnivorous morons who steal software have no idea what it's like to actually create something for a living, then have people try to steal it. It's wrong and illegal, no matter how you try to justify it.

If you don't agree with how Digidesign markets and designs their products, don't buy them. Buy Logic, buy Soundtrack, buy Adobe Audition... hell, get Audacity (which is open-source and free!). But don't try to convince us that cracking software is right.

Having said that: I fully expected the new Pro Tools HD at NAB to no longer require Digi hardware, and was disappointed to discover it was the same old crap. I still own and occasionally use PTLE (after using PTHD for many years), and I don't agree with how Digi and Avid run their company. But that still doesn't justify stealing.

--Marc W.

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Christian Holm

Christian Holm

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Posted

Pro Tools is the big standard for audio post and that's the best feature of the software (and hardware)

Collaborating in projects is a must and with the PT standard that works fine.

Using a (k) would be for people in music or aspiring post guy's (and girls)

Users learning software with (k) programs have been part of Adobe Photoshop's success...

Strengthening the standard tool with more users can be a good thing in the long run.

At the same time I would never use a cracked software in a professional environment.

I own 2 HD and one LE been a user of PT since 1998... all this time digidesign have promised better file management.

Also there is no clip editor... no history for going back on a clip... and the software is connected to digi hardware witch performs poorly.

Try this little experiment:

In PT make a stereo track.. Ad a tone generator on the st track... now look at the outgoing stereo signal from the digi hardware with a goniometer osciloscope (hardware not plugin) sweep thru the frequencies from 30hz to 20kHz... :)  what U will discover is horrible..

The competitors Pyramix and Nuendo have all the "modern" features U would expect from the leading software.

May be it's time for Avid (digidesign is no more) to take a big step into the future of the 2000?

And now with the latest purchase of Euphonix the competitor Nuendo is in the water... Shure Avid say they will continue supporting Nuendo<->Euphonix why say anything else?

I don't think Avid is hurt by someone making a "maybe functioning"  (k) of Pro Tools HD

It's not all black and white in this case... But as a general idea I agree cracked software is stealing.

And Bob...

U did write:

Really popular in Europe and other parts of the world to simply steal  and "crack" programs...

I was only pointing out in a humoristic way (my mistake) the fact that Europe is divided in to many different cultures as America.

So let´s keep to the topic

//Christian

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Daniel Bohm

Daniel Bohm

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Hi!

It's good to see that everyone is using legal software.

I am using ProTools since 2001 and I always have it legally.

Nearly all sound studios are using legal ProTools HD in our East European country - Hungary

I think cracked versions are great to give a try to my generation and younger people who needs to learn a program outside of the studio.

I'll get my diploma in this september in our country's film university and nearly none of my classmates can use ProTools because they couldn't afford to buy it, don't want to buy, they use other cracked programs... 

PT is a standard, that you have to know, but a student can't afford it.

And some funny prices in my country:

Normal salary  $400/month

Sound Engineers Salary in the National Radio (40hours/week PT HD, etc.) $502/month

Sound Recordist +full equipment for documentary $100/day

Sound Department for feature film incl. equipment (PD6,Deva,Lectro., etc.) $400/day

etc.

Here we have big problems with producers, we can't unionize etc.

In our country the winner is who can do it cheaper, who can give you an invoice of twice the real price for tax evation.

You allways have to bargain for Dolby rights, etc. 

And it's the same in all professions.

So EastEurope is not only about torrents, It's a mentality that's hard to change.

I was happy that the program was cracked when I made this topic, but shortly I realized that It's against me too... but anyway it's an illuminating talk again.

Hope you have better days there.  Sorry for my bad English.

Daniel Böhm

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Philip Perkins

Philip Perkins

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Posted

Hi!

It's good to see that everyone is using legal software.

I am using ProTools since 2001 and I always have it legally.

Nearly all sound studios are using legal ProTools HD in our East European country - Hungary

I think cracked versions are great to give a try to my generation and younger people who needs to learn a program outside of the studio.

I'll get my diploma in this september in our country's film university and nearly none of my classmates can use ProTools because they couldn't afford to buy it, don't want to buy, they use other cracked programs... 

PT is a standard, that you have to know, but a student can't afford it.

And some funny prices in my country:

Normal salary  $400/month

Sound Engineers Salary in the National Radio (40hours/week PT HD, etc.) $502/month

Sound Recordist +full equipment for documentary $100/day

Sound Department for feature film incl. equipment (PD6,Deva,Lectro., etc.) $400/day

etc.

Here we have big problems with producers, we can't unionize etc.

In our country the winner is who can do it cheaper, who can give you an invoice of twice the real price for tax evation.

You allways have to bargain for Dolby rights, etc. 

And it's the same in all professions.

So EastEurope is not only about torrents, It's a mentality that's hard to change.

I was happy that the program was cracked when I made this topic, but shortly I realized that It's against me too... but anyway it's an illuminating talk again.

Hope you have better days there.  Sorry for my bad English.

Daniel Böhm

None of this is a real or logical justification for using cracks.

Some additional info re the movie and sound business in the USA:

--lowest price almost always wins here too

--an EXTREMELY small percentage of jobs are unionized, and the fact of a job being done under a union contract is no guarantee at all that things will be better for the individual worker.  The union generally watches out for itself first, you see?

--our wages may be somewhat higher, but I bet it is a lot more expensive to live and work in LA (or other US city) than in Eastern Europe.  These days I am frequently offered jobs at the rates you quoted....in the San Francisco (CA) area, one of the most expensive places to live in the world.

--there is no logical reason at all for the majority of audio post jobs to HAVE to be done on ProTools.  Most post jobs are smaller, take OMF tracks in and output a final mix--no inter-studio compatibility is required, and thus the work can be done in any number of excellent, cheaper systems that are not PT. 

Philip Perkins

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Laurence

Laurence

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Posted

--an EXTREMELY small percentage of jobs are unionized, and the fact of a  job being done under a union contract is no guarantee at all that  things will be better for the individual worker.  The union generally  watches out for itself first, you see?

This is an extremely subjective comment, both in terms of how much work is union and what benefits there are to union work.  On both of those points, it depends on geography as well as what type of jobs you do.  In Los Angeles, the vast majority of jobs are union.... and the fact that a job is union is, in fact, a guarantee that things will not drop below certain standards.  Some non-union jobs meet or exceed those standards and some don't.

Laurence

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soundtrane

soundtrane

Posted
Posted

Daniel, please don't try to make a point about labour and its compensation in your country. It's a lame way to go.

Apropos cracks, yes, i have tried a lot of them, but i have never used them commercially. Never got a chance to do so anyways. I bought (yes, bought) PTLE and the cheapest hardware option i had (was not ever going to record using it, rather only edit audio). When I had to work with OMF, i'd go to someone who had the PTHD and do the OMF conversion and then do the work back home.

I DO feel (and i have written about this before) that Digidesign DOES wrest a lot of money out of customers one way or the other. I am not a big fan of the company. However, they have monopolized some aspects of audio post and until there is someone who can legally and legitimately provide an option, one has to find ways to work with PT or work around it.

For that matter, there was some version of Nuendo (can't remember the number) had a LOT of issues with the supplied dongle, and I remember hearing people out here who bought it restorted to using the crack instead - which was smooth. Heh...

Like Audigy, I wait for some set of programmers to write software in the open domain to handle OMF and timecode. :)

-vin

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