Jan McL Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Noticed that my amp now shows a red indicator light on the TX side. RX side = green. This is the unit: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=20075 Troubleshooting, I now read this on the above-linked page: Note: This Hyperlink bi-directional amplifier is designed for burst half-duplex operation. It is not intended for constant transmit or CW operation. Operation of the amplifier in CW mode will damage the amplifier and void the warranty. I think I've damaged the amplifier and -- argh! -- voided the warranty. No! Did a walk test, and reception was better with the antenna direct to the IFB100. Guess I'm in the market for a new 2.4GHz amplifier, and want to avoid the same mistake. Note to self: read the fine print. What are you guys using these days? -- Jan, tweaking the cart Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Troubleshooting, I now read this on the above-linked page: Note: This Hyperlink bi-directional amplifier is designed for burst half-duplex operation. It is not intended for constant transmit or CW operation. Operation of the amplifier in CW mode will damage the amplifier and void the warranty. I think I've damaged the amplifier and -- argh! -- voided the warranty. No! I have just placed an order from the same company for essentially the same amp (but the so-called "outdoor" version with the following model no.: HyperAmp HA2401G-1000. In the spec there is the same alert "not intended for constant transmit" but I have dismissed this since the amp I am getting is the exact same amp that Billy Sarokin has been using for months with his IFB-100. Now I'm worried! What upsets me the most is that all of us relatively happy Zaxcom users have to sort all this stuff out ourselves! Why should you or I have to take the fall for using an amp with the IFB-100 that fails, when Zaxcom suggests that an amp is a good idea and you can "find one online" and hook it all up with cables/connectors you will also have to find for yourself. It would be different if the IFB-100 as delivered, with the small whip antenna, worked perfectly with decent range, and we were all just trying to "customize" (hot rod) the unit, then I think we would be on our own. But this is not the case. I look forward to receiving my amplifier... and possibly destroying just as you may have done. Regards, Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 the problems are most likely heat related issues associated with the TX always being on (CW = continuous wave)... red lights may indicate a protection circuit recognized it was getting too warm (hot!) and shut ot down; a good protection circuit would then allow it to come back on when it cools sufficiently. note cooling time may seem like a long time, but the heat may actually disperse pretty slowly depending on a lot of factors. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 RE: Heat/cooling. Overnight should be sufficient, Senator No cooling joy. Found this amp interesting for its tiny size, but ordered the same one Jeff did since I have the right power cable already built: http://www.sparcotech.com/cgi-bin/commerce.cgi?preadd=action&key=24201 I share Jeff's frustration: we're all inventing a crapload of wheels to use this still-amazing technology. At least we have this forum Yes! Visit the Zaxcom site for information every now and again in vain. Was interested to see the Zed Alpha software, but the link @ Zax is to a site that doesn't even have a link to the software on its home page. Were it not for Billy, getting the gear together would be a major pigfuck (can we say that here?); as it is, thanks to Billy it's only a minor pigfuck. There, I said it again. I wouldn't need the amplifier at all except that the IFB doesn't reach nearly as far as the audio signal and I WANT that good-quality audio for my excellent boom operator. So close to having what I want I can taste it. Sorry, I'm in a bit of a snit having spent many hours trying to educate myself and after all that, don't feel like I've learned a darned thing. Ohm. -- Jan, going for an attitude adjustment Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glenn Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Hi Jan, This is not the model of amp we reccomend but L-Com is the right company. I am out of the office till monday so I do not have the model number with me. Colleen at Zaxcom can give you the correct model number. Glenn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Hi Jan, This is not the model of amp we reccomend but L-Com is the right company. I am out of the office till monday so I do not have the model number with me. Colleen at Zaxcom can give you the correct model number. Glenn We still need to follow up on this issue since the model number that Zaxcom DOES recommend has the same warning about "not for continuous use" and the possibility of damaging the amp and voiding the warranty. I have emailed Billy S. on this since he has had the most experience with the recommended amp setup. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Glenn, lord love ya, thanks for the quick catch. Was able to cancel the order. Education for your loyal customers is in order, lad. More attitude adjustment on the way. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 sorry 'bout that Jan... sounds like your red light is a non resetting problem... I see you are getting some proper advice... I used to keep saying... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 17, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 Senator, Ordered this now-broken amp on advice from our mutual and most resourceful friend who shall for the nonce go unnamed, for sure. I didn't pull it out of thin air, though I've been known to do that, too. J Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 17, 2010 Report Share Posted June 17, 2010 I understand... there is a lot of this going on in the world, where folks adopt technology and push the limits, often also moving products into professional situations, beyond its design spec's. couple of thoughts: heat: my HAM radio dummy load (a resistor to substitute for an antenna for testing purposes) is rated at 100 Watts, which my transceiver puts out; the manual warns for key down, 10 minutes max-time / hour. it takes a while to cool down. for SSB (modulated power) it can go for hours on end. If ZAXCOM were to design and build a high quality, rugged, continuous duty version of these amps, it would be prohibitively expensive. He would have to meet FCC spec's, submit to expensive proof of performance testing, and deal with a shitload of paperwork. and since Zaxcom is working with small quantities, the costs would be close to astronomical, thus folks would seek out the same alternatives we are discussing now! The government calles it COTS (for Consumer, Off The Shelf) technology. in spite of the disclaimer, I'd try...(read my hat), if it is brand new, you may get a helpful response... and as always: crap happens!! all the best..,.I understand the frustration... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmaho Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Hi All, I've used two different 2.4 gig amps from the same company (L-Com). Both had the 'no continuous operation' disclaimer, but Glenn assured me that since their transmission is modulated (not sure if modulated is the right word) at 1 kHz, the transmission actually turns on and off 1000 times per second. Perhaps not what the L-Com people had in mind, but neither of my amps have blown. The major change I found was to mount the amp right on the antenna tree and use a DC injector to send power to the amp through the coax cable. The amp is designed to output almost a watt when fed with 2-100 mw (but not over 100 mw! If you have blown the amp it might be because you gave it too much power). The rf cable loss at 2.4 gig is severe, so if you have the amp on your cart and then run the output through 12' of cable and a few adapters (sma-bnc, bnc-n, etc) you are going to lose much of what the amp is boosting. When I had my amp on the cart I was finding that a whip antenna directly on the IFB xtr was almost as good as a directional antenna and amp. By mounting the amp right at the antenna you are pretty much eliminating the effects of cable loss because even if you lose 98% of your power from the ifb (100 mw out to 2 mw at the antenna), the amp still boosts it to 1 watt. You also insure against feeding too much power to the amp because the ifb actually outputs 125-140 mw). With just a few feet of cable that is knocked down to 100mw or less. The problem, I thought, of mounting the amp on the antenna tree was sending power to the amp, but L-Com sells a kit of an amp and DC injector. The DC injector is a tiny box that takes the rf from the ifb xtr and 12v from a wall wart and sends both through one rf cable to the amp. WARNING> The first kit I purchased came with a 9v wall wart and when I powered it from my 12v power supply on the cart it blew out the dc injector. So call L-Com and make sure you get the kit with the 12v injector. It's not clear in their product description. And yes, it would be nice if Zaxcom could figure this all out and package a kit. The problem is that 2.4 gig behaves very differently than UHF, so in order to get the ifb and zaxnet to have similar range to the UHF radios we have to go through these hoops. It does work. I've been very happy with the system and the range. It's not 100%. Sometimes the ifb range is actually more than the UHF and sometimes a boom person can wedge himself against a large metal object and the 2.4 gig return feed will drop out. Those cases are rare but fortunately the boom person using a 992 has the option to switch to direct feed and still listen to what he/she is doing. I would suggest calling L-Com when you order the kit to confirm the 12v powering. I'll try to post a photo of my antenna tree in another post. Good luck! Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 If ZAXCOM were to design and build a high quality, rugged, continuous duty version of these amps, it would be prohibitively expensive. He would have to meet FCC spec's, submit to expensive proof of performance testing, and deal with a shitload of paperwork. and since Zaxcom is working with small quantities, the costs would be close to astronomical, thus folks would seek out the same alternatives we are discussing now! I wasn't suggesting that Zaxcom develop its own amp/antenna system, I just was wishing that they could do a little bit more of the research and then very aggressively specify what parts are needed, where to get them, how to hook it up and so forth. Were it not for Billy Sarokin's input we would all be in very bad shape (and the perception of Zaxcom products tarnished). - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmaho Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Ooops, didn't work. I'll try again. Here's a close up of the amp mounted on my antenna tree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 The components Billy shows look like the antenna parts that Glenn supplied to me when I was doing a review of the 992 system for the 695 Quarterly. I mention it because the review also had a photo of the antenna system. You can access it on-line here: (All the issues) http://www.695.com/html/magazine.html The particular issue with the Zaxcom 992 test: http://www.695.com/695_Winter_linked_file.pdf Some of the issues of getting the system fully operational are discussed in the article. Since then, however, Zaxcom has released new receivers that considerably enhance the functionality of the whole system. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 BillyBillyBilly! David! Thank you so much for your time and thoughtful, informed replies. Contrary to prudent action, moved the amp near the antenna and did a walk test before I'd finished my first cuppa. Range already much improved. With the elimination of adapters and the addition of a DC injection device, I am heartily optimistic. Spoke yesterday with an L-com representative who said (based on the amp I ordered and dis-ordered) I had to have an entire 'kit' because of FCC rules. The 'kit' included a DC injector. Here's a link to the 'kit' he suggested: http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=25982 I think this is what you're talking about Mr. S. Yes? Noted that the above-linked amplifier calls for an "RP-TNC" connector to the amp. Looked it up and apparently the FCC has instituted a reverse-polarity standard for this kind of gear. To quote from the Wikipedia article: "Reverse-polarity TNC (RP-TNC) is a variation of the TNC specification which reverses the polarity of the interface. This is usually achieved by incorporating the female contacts normally found in jacks into the plug, and the male contacts normally found in plugs into the jack. RP-TNC connectors are widely used by Wi-Fi equipment manufacturers to comply with specific local regulations[citation needed], i.e. those from the FCC, which are designed to prevent consumers from connecting antennas which exhibit gain and therefore breach compliance." That made me sigh, "Jeepers, this is not Kansas, nor for amateurs." Thanks, David, for the link to your field-use report. Thoroughly well done, and added considerably to my understanding of the system. Concur with your suggestions for improvements to the 992 In process of ordering connector-specific cables. Wish I could trust my cable-making skillz (I have none), or had all the stuff I'd need on hand to improve my skillz, but connectors being cable-specific, etc., easier to have someone make 'em up. I'm using http://coaxicom.com/ and their online cable-build interface. I don't mind going through hoops so much, at least not when I've the gainfully-unemployed time to do it. Fortunately, I am not always so blessed with time to spend. One of the things I love about Zaxcom is its cutting edge. I am reminded that the cutting edge is not danced upon without a little blood. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmaho Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Hi Jan, Great line about the cutting edge!!!! I have this amp http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=20072&cmp=Similar I believe it's the same as the one you picked but it has regular connectors (not reverse polarity which are a pita). Also, does not have the ethernet thingy which adds a bit to the cost. Just make sure it comes with a 12v DC injector. mine came with a DC injector, part # XA- BT2406-20NF which was 9v and is now sitting dead as a door knob on my desk. I had to separately purchase a 12v injector (the L-Com customer service is a bit wacky, it took me almost 2 weeks to get them to send a 12v injector and then they charged me twice so I had to clear that up). So don't do it on line. talk to them first. They are all MIT and very smart but it's kind of like a convention of sound people. They are not 100% there. Best, Billy (the same Billy who is the difference between a major pigfuck and a minor pigfuck ;-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Is it wrong that I'm crying into my 2nd cuppa joe this a.m.? It's a chick thing. You still out west? Loving your pictures and stories from there. Off for a fresh hankie and to get the dough rising. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Hi Jan, Great line about the cutting edge!!!! I have this amp http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=20072&cmp=Similar I believe it's the same as the one you picked but it has regular connectors Billy (the same Billy who is the difference between a major pigfuck and a minor pigfuck ;-) Okay, so now I believe that the amp that I ordered could be the wrong model. I'm off by 1 letter. Billy's is a HA2401GX-1000 and the one coming to me has no X. The model with the X has these words to say in the spec: ]Hyperlink Technologies "Streaming Media Ready" amplifiers (see chart above for models) were designed from the start to survive the extreme conditions that Streaming Media imposes on an amplifier. Using proprietary heatsinking techniques, Hyperlink's Streaming Media amplifiers will remain at a safe operating temperatures for the most demanding Streaming Media applications, without the need for cumbersome heatsink plates, fins or fans. I will probably return the non-X model for the X-model since the reference to "streaming" seems to more closely address what it is we are trying to do with this amp.If anything qualifies for the term P-I-T-A, this is it.- Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 To paraphrase the Senator, you know who to call to resolve the issue. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 On the phone with L-com, they say the unit to which you linked dear Billy requires FCC licensure. They're sending me the forms. p9qhu;djkns Ouch. That was my head hitting the keyboard. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 At Glenn's suggestion, wrote and got an email from Colleen @ Zax: Hi Jan, Yes! Here's the info:Here's the link for the 2.4 gig amp http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=20077 One user hint. Do not run the ifb at full output power, reduce it to 5 or 6 in the setup menu (from a max of 7). Colleen | Zaxcom OK. This amplifier comes with RP-TNC connectors. This unit also requires FCC license. Deep breath. Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 At Glenn's suggestion, wrote and got an email from Colleen @ Zax: Hi Jan, Yes! Here's the info:Here's the link for the 2.4 gig amp http://www.l-com.com/item.aspx?id=20077 One user hint. Do not run the ifb at full output power, reduce it to 5 or 6 in the setup menu (from a max of 7). Colleen | Zaxcom OK. This amplifier comes with RP-TNC connectors. This unit also requires FCC license. Deep breath. Jan Any and all will require you to fill out an FCC document. I'm not sure exactly how you should go about this. I used a friends Ham license/Call Sign and that got me approved. I would not want you to use the SAME. Now, as to the model number of the amp: the one that Colleen recommends does have TNC connectors and it is NOT the same model that Billy S. recommends (and I have changed my order, not yet shipped, to the proper model). The model (from L-Com still) is HA2401GX-1000. I ordered the non-X model (it was cheaper) but changed to the X since the X is specifically tailored to streaming operation and it is the same model that Billy has. Now my head hurts too. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigmaho Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 Now my head is starting to hurt. I forgot about the FCC. I have a ham license, so I'm legal (sort of). Hopefully the FCC form is just a formality. And yes Jan, still in NM but we just wrapped the show so I'm heading back to NY on Monday. Hope to cross paths! Billy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted June 18, 2010 Author Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 To paraphrase the Senator, you know who to call to resolve the issue. Eric No, Eric, actually now I definitely don't know who to call. I don't have a ham license. Filled in the form honestly two days ago, and got a call from L-com saying I could not order. No, I'm not quite yet freaking out. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Palmer Posted June 18, 2010 Report Share Posted June 18, 2010 It makes me laugh that you/we have to go through all this because the IFB doesn't perform well enough out of the box. PWP (who owns plenty of Zax gear too) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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