When "Quiet please" just don't cut it

[Guest Mick]

Familiarity's inevitable evolution into contempt is nowhere more evident than on the set of  certain TV shows I've worked on. In the beginning, "quiet please" was usually enough to bring the noise down to a dull roar, but then as time and dedication go by, after about three years on the same show, with or without the same crew, it seems that certain levels of what can only be described as either arrogance or ignorance or both are arrived at. Where once a polite request for quiet would reduce the idle chatter to manageable levels, now we have reached the point where a loud "Shut up" is necessary, just so that the director can communicate with the actors. It has evolved to such a degree that the bell and light have no effect, "roll please" has little impact and it's only when the director calls "action" that a reasonable level of noise is achieved. I say noise because silence is a definite rarity that has all but disappeared. Background people and various crew members walk around blithely with little or no concern about footsteps and the potential to drop things during a scene. As I'm writing this a background person who is a regular on the show and very experienced has just walked by, clip-clopping right in front of me, and given me the stinkeye when I sshhhed her.

I've had crew members say stuff like, "there's no way you can hear me on my cell phone" "Mick you're getting anal about this" and I even had a teamster argue with me on the set a few years ago that he had to have his cell phone on so that he could talk to his guys. This was directly after his ring tone had spoiled a line of dialogue.

It's disconcerting to have people tell you that your microphones "can't possibly be that sensitive" or that "I didn't see the red light, it must be the sun in my eyes", when you know bloody well that they really think that set protocol applies to other people, not them.

I swear, in future posts the quotations will read something like..."I promise I'll be quiet, just don't hit me in the face again". Not that I'm frustrated or anything. Honest, just a healthy vent, really...I'm smiling...It's true...this jacket's very tight, I can't seem to move my arms...why are you holding that syringe?

Regards

Mick

[Travis Groves]

Ah the peace that quiet brings.  I worked on a shoot last summer that involved a sleeping baby laying on a bed.  The sleeping baby was playing a dead baby, so it was imperative that he remained still and sleeping.  In two hours, we went through twice as many set-ups as we planned and the baby rarely stirred.  Afterward, the entire crew remarked how effecient and productive we were because we all abstained from unneccesary talking and then only in whispers.  Everyone found it easier to concentrate and comunicate without the usual din of the set.  I mentioned to the A.D. that this might be a protocol worth adopting for the rest of the shoot; " alright people, we're gonna go 'dead baby' on this one..."  That lasted for about 10 minutes and then it was back to pandamonium.  There is just something so demeaning about playing librarian, having to shush people all day, especially when they're proffesionals who take what THEY do very seriously and expect you to do the same.  I need to hire the meanest, most surly S.O.B. I can find and let him play "bad cop" all day long.  That, or a sleeping baby.

[Eric Toline]

Aside from the obvious "The inmates are running the asylum" it does seem that there's no one in charge of insuring that the set is quiet during a take. Micks opening line is spot on.

Eric

[Guest tourtelot]

Gets worse and worse the more years I spend.  It is basic disrespect for what one set of people are trying to do for the movie.  I had an AD get in my face because I "disrespected" him by yelling "shut up!"  But wouldn't admit that talking through the take was disrespecting me.  Very strange.

Some days it doesn't bother me, some days it drives me to bitchy insanity.

Oh, and wrapping G&E during the last set-ups of the day. . . .  Grrrrr!

D.

[Guest Mick]

Yeah Doug, I've had to send my third guy to find out why the ambient noise had increased just before a stage move and he came back to say that G&E had opened the stage door. This was during the close up stage of a two page dialogue scene. And no matter how many times I discuss this with the best boys, nothing seems to change. The marginal jump on the move which they seem desperately determined to achieve is worth, in their minds, jeopardizing the soundtrack. I wonder if I have to become more of an isolationist and less of a team player in order to reduce the stress of doing the best job I can.

Anyone have a movie they'd like to swap for a series? Not really, just wingeing, but it feels good to air these gripes and to hear what else is frustrating for other mixers.

Regards

Mick

[Guest tourtelot]

This sounds like a problem that, if it can't be solved by the ADs, deserves a trip to the producers' office.  You can be totally non-confrontational and tell them that you just think that they should "know about the problem,"  that you've tried talking to the Key and Gaffer and you are out of available solutions.  If the producers don't care, then you need care no longer and can turn you phones down low enough so that you don't hear it anymore.  If they do care, it should be a pretty easy thing to fix.  "People who make noise during the roll will be fired".  Easy!

D.

[Philip Perkins]

One improvement has been the availability of wifi on stages.  Now instead of talking all the time because they are bored, they are all on their laptops working on their websites.

Philip Perkins

[soundwiz]

it seems that sound has become a unwanted child and a nuisance on most sets, though all say that they want great sound

across the continents the mixers are faced with the same dilemna,

more and more stressful situations for sound and not enough cooperation sfrom other departments , when we go all out to help them,

the sound person is often ignored or at the best a guy with attitute /a chip on the shoulder, who thinks only he works and what not have been said

i have found that the way you mean biz, no nonsense,non compromising profesional attitude coupled witha cheerful friendly persona when not rolling carries you far and makes lotsa friends

end of the day as my seniors have noted, on the drive back, is life worth it

we live to think that another day

just some odd bit of rambling, diffrent words , same theme

just my .02 cents

Harry

[Guest tourtelot]

Yeah, al least that keeps you out of fist-fights.  But I think, and I am sounding like Jim Webb now (the soundman, not the politico) when I say, it isn't like it used to be.  There is a large problem with what I see as a lack of mentoring in all departments.  There are a lot more people coming on my sets in fairly key positions that are fresh out of AFI and have never been on the set as a hammer, a utility, a PA, and think that they know "how it's done."  The DP on my last job was like that.  Nice enough guy, but had never worked as an assitant, or an electrician, or gaffed, so his technical chops were non-existant.  He had some concepts about "a look" but didn't know how to get there.  So he illuminated and illuminated until, as my boomman said, there were no shadows anywhere.  And one of the major items that falls by the wayside is set decorum.  I once had a grip to tell my pregant wife to get the "fuck out of" his way at catering.  I had a mentor who wore a tie to work every day.  There is a difference in attitude and respect.

I try and be a friendly face and a helping hand but teaching crew members how to behave on the set is far out of my job description.  Old-style directors who demand a quiet working set go a long way toward eliminating the noise problem but those guys are getting fewer and farther between and the new "kids" don't know that there is a different way.

I don't think that it will get any better, and that the frustration to the department will continue to mount, but I sure do like those jobs where the set noise is held down by the powers.  I also think that a word with the production team will answer the noise question for better or worse and either settle it or not and give the sound team the ability to push or back off without holding on to the responsibility of being the "set police."

D.

[soundwiz]

Doug,

i agreee with what you say in general and about older directors and the newer ones from AFI s who are the norm these days

but to get the work done esp dealing with set noise and other problems , we have to get a stnad and solve them ,otherwise the inevitable -why didnt u let me know before comes up, me personally never let  that situation come in

if there is a problem that was left to me , not identified by the ADs ,PM or responsible people , i make sure i fry their arse when needed and also smile at them to make sure that i cant be caught napping,my assts are no green horn either

but the new directors usually are smartarses who think they can fix it in the post and absolve me of responsibility, so i let them do that

end of the day its thier film too not just my sound,

my .02 cents

Harry

[Guest tourtelot]

Agree 100%

We all do what we can, but when there is nothing more to be done, I go and sit back down in my "how tall is your average soundman" chair and let them hang yourself.  If I wanted to be a teacher, I'd work for AFI <g>.  Not!

D.

[tim apter]

working only on smaller shows, and not having even 1% of the experience you guys do, i can only agree with everything said here - there is on plenty of shows a de-volution from discipline to chaos as a long shoot progresses - i cant even imagine a show like CSI after x number of seasons or years. In my current situation (week 13 on a drama show here in SA), I find myself in a situation where I'm lucky enough to have even the 1st AD feeling the heat of a noisy crew sometimes...

Whats helped me is that I have on a 3 weekly basis sent through a friendly but formal round up of the status of the sound department to the head honcho's in production - this is a great tool for me because it serves as a progress contract of sorts: I bring up problems that I have encountered that were unsolvable by either myself or through typical crew hierarchy channels. If production dont want to take the steps to solve problems I cannot control through my actions, recording techniques, or the ations of others, then this effectively leaves the ball in their court and prevents them from ever pointing a finger wrongfully in future. (This has never happened yet, but a paper trail is never a bad thing to have).

I guess we all feel the fire on a daily basis, and fight to contain bad situations, and often end up compromising in the interests of not losing our minds for a film shoot and numerous other reasons, but thats one reason this job will never be boring...

tim

[David Terry]

And I thought that it was just the Atlanta crews that had developed lousy set manners.  I don't recall other threads here or on RAMPS about rude crews making noise.  I don't know whether to be happy that I am not alone, or saddened that the problem is industry wide.

Our crews do everything that you can imagine.  Hair and makeup, when they come to set have to talk during the takes.  They are not as loud as G & E.  Video village is a party.

Over the years I have damaged my ears, turning up the headphones so that I can identify who is the worst offender.  My ears will never recover.  Now I keep the headphone level down but politely let folks know that my gear is so clean and has so much dynamic range, that everyone who makes the slightest sound is guaranteed to be recorded.

David Terry

[Scott Smith]

Terry,

Sadly, as pointed out here, the problem IS industry-wide. Back in the day (here I go), the offender would have been ejected from the set. Nowadays, the offenders are frequently the producers and directors themselves. What are you gonna do? I think part of it also has to do with the fact that very few films actually screen dailies these days, where much of the background chatter would actually be noticed, and addressed the next day.

The only luck I've ever had is to have the folks in post fire off an email to the producers that they're going to have a major looping bill if people don't shut up. It works for a couple of days, and then it's back to business as usual.

Overall, I think a lot of it has to do with the general lack of consideration on the part of society in general. Go to any movie theatre (other than maybe an Academy event, where the offender will be stared down), or a music performance, and people are yakking away non-stop.

Reminds me of a performance I attended at a local jazz club years ago, where the esteemed Les McCann and Eddie Harris were performing. At the opening of the set, Les McCann stepped up to the mike and asked for the audience to show respect during the performance by remaining quiet.  He then added that if someone close by was annoying you, to just turn around and tell them (this was in sotto-voce), "to shut the f**k up". This drew great laughter and applause from the audience. And they were dead quiet during the show (of course maybe some of them feared that Les would single them out for his particular brand of verbal assault!).

Maybe hiring a couple of thugs to work the set would be an idea...

Scott D. Smith C.A.S.

[Walt Martin]

I've been on shows where MOS shots are just as quiet as dialog shots.  Actors, the director, camera operators and others need to be able to concentrate.  I love it when the  lead actor stops in the middle of a take and asks for quiet, but my favorite line was "Does anyone else want to pee during my closeup".

Walt

[tim apter]

ha ha! Im working with some great actors at the moment that also get irate on not only their behalf but mine too.. yesterday a lead actress stopped during a take and said "if its annoying me imagine what its doing to Tim". I like it that they occasionally specifically reference sound, because at least it gets the point through that they are NOT being prima-donna's, they ARE professionals, and that they care about an audible performance as much as a visual. (We are on a ZERO adr budget show, so pressure is tight - luckily it seems to filter through and buy me some leeway and understanding sometimes. Thus far, no need for ADR anyway.)

[taylormadeaudio]

I recently mixed a film directed by Wayne Wang.  He was by far the most sound-conscious Director with whom I've ever had the privilege to work.  I got more clean room tone and wild lines on this job than probably the entire rest of career.  One of our locations -- we were shooting in an apartment for 3 weeks...  the second day we were there he sent the stills guy packing -- in front of everybody -- for being too loud during rehersals.  I felt so immediately vindicated it almost scared me.  I tried to warn the photog early on, but he thought he'd make jokes instead of taking me seriously.  Anyhow, I thanked Wayne and we went on to have one of the most beautifully quiet days I've worked in 15 years.  Stay strong my brothers (and sisters)  : )

"In the beginning, God SAID,  "Let there be light."  ... speaking of:  like my good friend Steve Jones reminded me -- we always have the option of showing up on set with laser pens.  :  )

[Guest tourtelot]

Or my favorite; pocket mirrors!

D.

[Philip Perkins]

I recently mixed a film directed by Wayne Wang.  He was by far the most sound-conscious Director with whom I've ever had the privilege to work.  I got more clean room tone and wild lines on this job than probably the entire rest of career.  One of our locations -- we were shooting in an apartment for 3 weeks...  the second day we were there he sent the stills guy packing -- in front of everybody -- for being too loud during rehersals.  I felt so immediately vindicated it almost scared me.  I tried to warn the photog early on, but he thought he'd make jokes instead of taking me seriously.  Anyhow, I thanked Wayne and we went on to have one of the most beautifully quiet days I've worked in 15 years.  Stay strong my brothers (and sisters)  : )

"In the beginning, God SAID,  "Let there be light."  ... speaking of:  like my good friend Steve Jones reminded me -- we always have the option of showing up on set with laser pens.  :  )

For Mr. Wang's sensitivities about sound you should thank Curtis Choy, who mixed his first several features done in SF.  Wayne asked Curtis about production sound and what he needed, and Curtis told him, back on "Chan Is Missing" etc..

Philip Perkins

[RPSharman]

One of the usual responses to the request for quiet is that there is no way you can hear this on the track.  In the kindest possible way, I remind the JACKASS that "although it might not make the track, it is both distracting to the mixer and the actors if people are talking or working during the take.  I don't expect you would wave your arms around the lense and tell the operator and/or DP that it's okay because you weren't in the frame."

Although it may not always work, they at least think about it for a second.  It is sertainly most effective when the actor interrupts a take to ask for quiet.

[Malcolm Davies Amps CAS]

I feel for you guys@

It can be bad here in the UK but by the sound of it you are having a raw deal.

I usually set up a 10 metre exclusion cell phone zone round the cart as even when they are on silent I hear all sorts of tones breaking into the system. A warning of "My bite is worse than my Bark" is usually enough to make trangressors go somewhere else.

[Guest afewmoreyears]

One of my favorite sayings is  " it's not my movie" ....

  If there is talking or noise on the set I tell them once....  I also tell them I will not make a spectacle of myself screaming and yelling about it... This is your 1 chance to understand the filming protocol.....  from that point on I will not say one word.... It is the ADs job to keep the set quiet.... I just lay down the best tracks I can under ANY circumstances.... even talking and movement on the set...

  If even one word is mentioned to ME about it later, (and it never is) watch out!

  After that point it is out of my hands....  Not my problem, and I don't worry about it.... period..

It is not my movie.... I will not FIGHT for them, only work for them.....

I know, old thread.... but relevant...

[larry long]

I said that to a director today, for about the 3rd time on this movie. He looked at me and said "why do you tell me that?".

err just trying to help you make your movie man....

LL

[GrahamTimmer]

i've dealt with this on more than a few occasions by 'giving' out Comteks to some of the perps.  They always come back with there tails between their legs saying things like i didn't realize or wow you REALLY can hear EVERYTHING!! 

Anyway works on some people.

G

[Guest afewmoreyears]

Graham...

  Your seem nice and polite....  and still sound like you believe in people.... wish I still did...

  Me,  on the other hand,  although I have before put my headphones on someone who needed to hear what we do... at this point in my career am not going to give out parts of my gear package to people to dumb to practice the most basic of on set protocol... STFU....  (shut the _ _ _ _ up).  Agency, clients and others are bad enough... but those fools with my comteks...  I don't think so... I have enough problems.

  I say this with a smile, but I am serious....  would they dance around in front of the camera?  maybe...  but the constant movement and talking is the same to us... disrespectful to the project, director, producer (even though it's them sometimes) and ME.... It's almost a running joke, that's why I no longer worry about it....  "did you hear the talking they ask....?"  yeah...  didn't you.....?  thats all they get...  It's amazing... when handled this way they actually get the fact that their project is suffering and the mixer won't throw a fit.... so they usually do!!!! Works for me...