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ENG and soft talkers


Rob Lewis

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I find myself ever frustrated with the day jobs I do anymore.  Most of the subjects we interview are people unfamiliar with the news/tv interview setting and usually have the "deer in the headlights" look when a producer and 2 crew members walk in the door with all this gear.  This leads to extremely softspoken, low energy interviews by a producer who's only concern is that they make his/her flight at the end of the day.  Just about all these jobs take place in poor locations where the shot choice is bad as well as the ambient noise level.  My frustration is high gain settings with soft talkers, fighting ambient noise levels no matter what mic is used or how close I can get it.  Is there any advice that can be given to get these people to open thier mouth and speak up.  Who, and how do I approach that person to get the interview subject to speak up whithout seeming pushy or pissing the producer off.  Obviously our boss for the days does not understand the limitations of field work.

Please help, I seem like the only one going through this.  This happened again yesterday with a producer that refuses to use boom mikes for interviews, so I put a wireless on each subject and they were still so soft that I had to fight the air system that could not be shut off.

Any tips or advice would be appreciated,

Thanks ,

Frustrated Rob

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In my opinion...the way to deal with "quiet talkers" is to throw a lav on them.  You will get the best "signal-to-ambient-noise-ratio" possible.  They may not sound quite as good as the boom, but the background noise should be diminished significantly.  Getting the the mic closer to the source is the ONLY guaranteed way to reduce the ambient sound (when sounds can't be eliminated physically/mechanically)  And for the record...you will NEVER get the interviewee to speak louder.  The first few words, YES, the first sentence, probably, by the second question...the soft talker will have returned :)

As the soundmixer, you need to tell the "producer" that the ambient sound is too loud and you can't hear the interviewee.  Suggest a slight change of location, even turning the interviewee's back to the offending sound can help tremendously.  Put the ball in their court, if they say it is OK, then it is OK!  Sleep well at night, don't worry about it.

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Part of the reason that the producers seem somewhat unconcerned about the ambient noise is that they have gotten away with it many times before.  The reason they got away with it is that (possibly) someone in post cleaned up the audio, perhaps with as simple a tool as an expander, on up thru Cedar type NR.  The only comfort I can offer is that you should remember that you are part of a sound team, even if the other members (editor, sound editor, mixer) aren't there when you do your work.  For the tough situations it takes everyone's efforts to make the track work--no one person is going to do it all.  This is true at all levels of motion picture sound.

Philip Perkins

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Guest Jeffrey Colon

Hello Rob, All

You are not alone... My Thanksgiving week was spent on a BBC show with a "presenter" wearing a wool sweater over a starched shirt with a silk lined coat... his delivery while engaging would sometimes become little more than a whisper... and sometimes his clothes were whispering louder.  At times I was using two Lavs with a B6 at his throat and a cos11 in his lapel... I would have gone for a hair mike if I had some hair to work with... Lensing was so wide on most of this, booming with the mkh70 became my weapon of need (not my first choice)... all in all I would give a grade of 7 on a 1 to 10, not where I want to be...  The Director and DP were first rate individuals and at wrap the director apologized for putting me in a position where it was virtually impossible to record decent sound...at least I was able to communicate the issues I was facing and he seemed to understand... why we could not get alternate takes in a bit tighter for sound is beyond me... I think my name in the credits will be my middle name first, first name last...

All I can suggest is a stiff drink, chin up, and on to the next adventure...

jeff C.

or Palmer Jeffries... ;-J

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I know whereof you speak having worked "Hard Copy" and "Unsolved Mysteries" for many years where the interview is pivotal to the presentation of the programme. I've always found Sonotrim/Tram lavs, which are less sensitive tham Sankens, to be quite adequate in situations where the ambient noise can be challenging. The voice to background ratio is often better than with better sounding but more sensitive mics. I've used them to great effect in Las Vegas casinos where the noise level is loud but fairly constant and the dialogue was virtually whispered.

I'm a great beleiver in the axiom about doing whatever you can within the bounds of your own knowledge and experience and then let Murphy do his thing. When you run up against the brick wall of the limits of your capabilities all you can do is your best and hope that the "powers that be" appreciate it. It happens, honest.

I just remembered a story I heard of a mixer with the same problem, loud ambience and soft spoken dialogue, who pointed a shotgun at the offending air conditioner or whatever it was, and "phased out" the background noise with the lavalier on the subject. In theory I'm sure this is possible but whether or not you'd have the time to experiment and find the correct level/angle/distance etc etc. Who knows....

Good luck and regards

Mick

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Back when I considered my job was to deliver great quality I was frustrated constantly. 

I've since decided that they're paying me to deliver the best quality possible under the conditions that I'm given to work with.

My life is now so much easier.  I point out problems and accept what the producer dictates.

With many of the types of shows you mentioned, the quality standard is simply, "can the audience understand what the subject is saying?"  If they can, sit back and relax.

John B.

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I think that John hit the nail on the head.  All the time, every job, I strive for great quality sound in sound.  News, sports, reality, film, doc or whatever the shoot is, I want it perfect.  I guess I havent gotten to the point in my career where on some shoots it is what it is and just do the best I can.

As far as Mick mentioned, I did use COS-11's on the subjects which are fairly open sounding, more sensitive mics.  I may have gotten better rejection with a less sensitive EMW.  But !!  this producer is always in an extreme hurry, so no time to dig them out !!

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I'm with John B these days...

I often use a B6 in this situation , to be honest I'm not too fussed on the sound but it's good at isolating the speaker from the background. But yeah, sometimes it's a matter of "can I understand what they are saying?"...

I think the key is too not stress about it, there's always tomorrow.  But I do understand where you are coming from, in fact all of us have been in this situation where you know it's not the best work you've ever done but "it will do". On a lot of shows I've worked on audio post comprised of fader up, fader down.  I try to do my best but know that sometimes things are out of my control, also 99% of the listeners/viewers don't have a clue with regards to good/bad audio....

failing that, beer is your friend!

Grant.

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  • 1 month later...

Rob, I feel for you.... been there a lot.  One thing I seem to be able to get away with (depending on how well I know the producer) is to go ahead and jump into the conversation with the talent as we're setting up. I tell them that even though it's very logical to think of the interview as "this is an intimate conversation between me and the producer" mode, I really need their help in overcoming the background sound levels a bit. As an earlier poster noted, having the interviewer speak up as well tends to pull a louder answer out of the talent. I've usually spoken with the producer/ interviewer about the ambient noise we'll be struggling to overcome in the location, so my invocation to the talent to participate at a fuller volume than they might think is necessary clues the producer/ interviewer in to do his part as well.

  On a practical level, if you can find a point source for the air handler (for example) you mentioned, placing an absorptive obstruction in the line of sight to the mic will reduce the annoyance considerably. A c-stand with a 2X3 flag with a folded sound blanket (or heavy coat --- or everyone's jackets!) lying atop it often serves as an effective device for me. Raised to a position to hide the source from the mic, this contraption can lower point source noise 10dB for sure.

  Happy New Year,

      Greg

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this is something that as a pretty young mixer im just coming to understand - and it came from me presenting what i thought was really killer audio in some scenes, and telling the producer about it, and the answer is usually "yes! its fine."

i think a lot of the time its only us sound folks who live the "pursuit of perfect audio" dream - everyone else is just looking for intelligibility. :) so now days, i look to put down a strong, consistently intelligible track first (by mic choice and room treatment/location choice), and when i get lucky enough to push my favourite mics in close at a quiet location, i consider that a personal private victory. of course, i still do tend to brag to everyone about how kick ass it sounds until they tell me to shut up. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

Rob,I understand your problem perfectly!! I do a lot of interviews and one of the things to remember is the camera is the greatest modifier of human behaviour.So we must take this into account right up front with most people.I find its essential to make a connection with the person being interviewed if they look or sound nervous in particular.Often its a smile,a light-hearted remark,or finding out if you have friends in common.This is often not possible with the time constraints of today's world.But there would be very few people who don't appreciate your effort to make them feel more comfortable.In doing a major interview it is important to sit down with them beforehand and listen to them,have a cup of coffee,and make them more at ease.Let them realise that they can trust you.Their voice levels will tend to rise as they talk more, especially if its about something they are familiar with.

I prefer to use either a Schoeps(MK41 with GVS swivel and a PSC small universal mount) or a DPA 4071 lav for i/vs.The size of the mic matters for most people as the least intrusive is the best.

Close all the doors, windows and any where there is an air gap,as unwanted sound will get through.I try and control the background early on before the i/v is even set up.The less fuss the better during the i/v.

Hope this helps.

Brian

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I prefer not to think of this as an audio problem but a people management issue.

This plan of action has proved useful, remember most producers are really incompetent so make use of this.

So the interview starts and the voice trails off to a whisper. Look at the producer with a wide eyed panicked look on the face tap your cans and silently mouth to them "I can't hear anything" Practice the panicked look at home until you have it down pat.

Get the producer to take charge, stop the shoot talk to the talent and try to get things back on track.

This way you have flicked the problem to the producer made them aware of the problem and up to them to fix.

No one will remember why the shoot was stopped but they always remember who stopped the shoot, make sure it's some one else first.

By doing this they can't go back and say bad things as you have made them aware of the situation so the onus is on them to deliver the goods.  The rest of the crew can then back you up as the shoot was stopped so everyone knows plus all eyes are then on the producer.  Now it's the producers problem / head on the line.

If it's a reporter wait until an answer is finished then interrupt the journalist on the following question and whisper in to their ear you have a problem with the talent being so quiet again flick the problem to another person.

This is a far more psychological way of working but talent will respond better to a reporter or a producer than the "crew" as they are percieved as lower status than the suits. (sad but true)

Some days it's easier to manage people than technical stuff. We all have a myriad of tricks up the sleeve but if the producer / reporter can be convinced you have saved their arse...

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