filmfreak Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 Greetings to all I bought mini starq uad cables recently and went ahead soldering some mini stereo jacks to XLR cables. I also wanted to make a couple of Switchcraft Mini XLR cables to XLR M and XLR F but the mini star quad cable's diameter was not permitting the cable to make it through the Mini XLR tight Switchcraft sleeve. I remember the first time I switched from a typical XLR cable ( not anything fancy ) to a Mogami mini star quad, I was amazed by what my ears were listening ! To make sure that it was not a psycho acoustic mind trick, I switched back to the previously used cable and then plugged the Mogami again and there it was once more ! The low end contained less mud, mids were unstuck from the background, there was a better high end response and air in the highs. I never looked back again and sticked on mini star quads simply because they sounded so much better to my ears. Except offering better isolation which are specifically the properties and advantages of a mini star quad versus a more common XLR cable ? When cable diameter is an issue, should someone try to go around the mini star quad or insist on patenting the cable so the mini star quad will fit in somehow ? [glow=red,2,300]Happy[/glow], [glow=red,2,300]Healthy[/glow] and [glow=red,2,300]Prosperous 2011[/glow] to everyone ! Aris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Wexler Posted December 30, 2010 Report Share Posted December 30, 2010 I think for very short cable runs, like interconnect/adapter cables, use of Star-Quad cable is probably not necessary (and most probably of little benefit even sonically). I think the dangers of buggering up the larger diameter cable cramming it into mini-Switchcraft housing outweigh possible advantage to using Star-Quad cable. - Jeff Wexler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted December 31, 2010 Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 switchcraft does make a larger diameter boot option for its TA series connectors. I'd be careful calling them XLR's, as I got confused while reading your post... the advantage of the "star-quad" type cables is primarily resistance to induced noise, aka hum reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted December 31, 2010 Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 Hi Aris, "Starquad" refers to a particular twisting scheme of four conductors within a shielded cable, and is available from the usual manufacturers of audio cable. This should not be confused with the term "twisted pair", which does not necessarily refer to the starquad scheme. The four conductors of a starquad cable have two colors, with two of the conductors being one color, and the other two conductors being the second color. White and blue are common colors used in cables with the starquad scheme. When terminating a balanced starquad cable, to get the benefits of the starquad scheme, the conductors of the same color are soldered together on the same contact. Regarding the difference between starquad vs simple shielded pair (fancy or not), the only difference is that starquad cables will cancel noise that is induced into the cable of a balanced circuit. The benefit of this cancelation is very apparent when crossing power lines that are dimmed with an SCR type dimmer, particularly with mic level signals. Otherwise, the starquad scheme does nothing to improved or degraded the audio signal. The Belden "Mini-Starquad" will fit into TA-style mini-XLR connectors by Switchcraft and Remote Audio, but the rubber boot needs to be removed and the center bushing knocked out. Other brands of TA connectors come with a large and small collet to accommodate cables larger than lav mic cables, but the crimp-style strain relief is, generally, more effective. Cables for balanced line-level signals usually do not need the noise canceling ability of the starquad scheme, particularly in the short runs associated with interconnects within a cart or a bag. But, since the use of cables for location sound can vary from day to day, it is a reasonable practice to have only cables with the starquad scheme. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
graham Posted December 31, 2010 Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 ...I remember the first time I switched from a typical XLR cable ( not anything fancy ) to a Mogami mini star quad, I was amazed by what my ears were listening ! To make sure that it was not a psycho acoustic mind trick, I switched back to the previously used cable and then plugged the Mogami again and there it was once more ! The low end contained less mud, mids were unstuck from the background, there was a better high end response and air in the highs... Mogami is great and compared to generics or lower quality cables, what you state is definitely audible and quantifiable(although i personally have never done a test and measure). However, might it be the difference in cable manufacturer as opposed to the starquad? Have you compared Mogami quad to Mogami standard and noticed such a large difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted December 31, 2010 Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 When induced noise is not an issue (which is dealt with by shielding and twisting schemes), Mogami will sound exactly like the cables of the same type sold in the CB radio department of Truck Stops of America, which will also sound exactly like two metal coat hangers with clip leads (although I prefer the hangers sold at Target). Seriously, for all practical purposes, other than the shielding effectiveness and twisting scheme to deal with induced noise, and possibly the affects of conductor size in relation to cable length, the differences between audio cables are the physical properties, such as durability, flexibility, ease of soldering, color options, microphonic tendencies (such as in the case of coiled cables), diameter, etc, not audio fidelity. If a difference is heard, then the problem is somewhere else. Glen Trew Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted December 31, 2010 Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 Would directional arrows on the jacket help>>>>>>>>>>>>>? Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted December 31, 2010 Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 Only these arrows: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
filmfreak Posted December 31, 2010 Author Report Share Posted December 31, 2010 Glen,Michael and Jeff Thank you for putting time in to my question. Feedback is appreciated and the use of Star Quads is clear in my head now. I remember reading an article I think it was about a couple of years ago highlighting the benefits of star quad and then instinctively, my sonic memory was ringing a subconscious bell when I had to choose on which kind of cables I should use. Jeff, thanks for highlighting short cable runs because it was all about short cables I was going after. Glenn, the cables are indeed mini star quad and not twisted pairs. A couple of Blue plus a couple of White and shielding. The cables I picked up are the Van Damme ones. The reason I chose Van Damme over Mogami or Canare is that I needed 6-7 color codes and Van Damme is the only brand that offered that many colors in mini star quad. Haven't tried the Belden mini star quad ones but Belden would not be my first choice. I already soldered the cables now ( except the TA series connectors ) but I now know better for next time and I will investigate carefully in order to find quality small diameter cables. Graham, I didn't A/B Mogamis and all the Mogami cables I have are mini star quads but I believe that Glenn answered thoroughly on this one . Kindest Regards Aris Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nickreich Posted January 2, 2011 Report Share Posted January 2, 2011 Starquad cable is very effective in reducing induced noise from dimmers and suchlike, but there is one tradeoff that should be kept in mind when using it for very long runs. The capacitance effect of the parallel conductors does cause a high-frequency rolloff that can definitely be audible on runs of 100m or more. Canare for one is quite emphatic about this in their cable brochures and include tables to calculate the effect (the roll-off gets lower the longer the cable). It's common practice for this reason in the Live Sound world to use Starquad for cables up to 20m then normal 2 conductor + shield mic cable or Multicore for longer runs. This is unlikely to be an issue for most Location Sound work but is definitely a consideration for larger Outside Broadcasts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhyOne Posted January 21, 2011 Report Share Posted January 21, 2011 Aris and Group, My two cents: I do not disagree with ANY of the advice in this thread, however... There is a MAJOR difference between the Mogami offering and the Canare and Belden. All three are "quaded", and Glen's explanation is accurate, but there is another factor. The shielding scheme in the Canare and Belden is braided (offering >95% shielding), while the Mogami shielding is "served" or simply put, completely wrapped around the conductors (offering 100% shielding). The served shield is an advantage in offering greater protection from RFI interference, yet if the cable is subjected to constant coiling/uncoiling the served shield tends to separate, making the cable more susceptible to ALL outside interference. In my package, I use the Mogami cable for all PERMANENT interconnections on the cart, where once in place they are stationary, but use Canare for all cables used on the set and leading to the cart - any cables that are wrapped/unwrapped over and over again. Additionally, the Canare has the characteristic of remaining incredibly flexible in very low temperatures; I have used both single pair and four pair Canare in temperatures approaching -40º and it stayed flexible as others snapped, cracked, and died. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikewest Posted March 23, 2012 Report Share Posted March 23, 2012 All my cables are Canare star quad On big sets with problematic lighting cables they are the best way to go mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolfvid Posted June 12, 2012 Report Share Posted June 12, 2012 i need to get my ears gold plated. silver varnishes so quickly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Waldron Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I like the Mogami Quad and Mini Quad over the Canare.....because I don't have to unbraid the frickin' shield..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Mayer Posted June 13, 2012 Report Share Posted June 13, 2012 I like the Mogami Quad and Mini Quad over the Canare.....because I don't have to unbraid the frickin' shield..... +100 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Duffy Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 One tiny nit-pick against Star-Quad cables - after prolonged use, a broken solder join in the connector or a broken wire part way along the cable won't break the signal flow, so a cable tester won't show a fault. You'd only notice that its noise reducing qualities were no longer effective. Diligent periodic inspection inside the connector, and scrapping cables that have been badly turned/pinched is required.. Tom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 +100 It's a PITA because you don't have the right tool to do the job. Get an unused pocket tweaker screw driver and grind off the blade and grind to a point. Then heat up the shaft with a propane torch and bend the shaft to 45 degree or so angle. Quench in water and you're ready to go. You should end up with something like this. It will make unbraiding Canare french braid almost a pleasure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted July 17, 2012 Report Share Posted July 17, 2012 I just use the tip of one of the probes on the multi-meter. It's always right there anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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