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First Drama shoot - pointers?


RadoStefanov

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First of all I have to correct myself.

It was an amateur shoot.

I was just thinking if they study film in UNLV, have all the permits and paperwork maybe they are better then the usual DSLR amateurs.

I was wrong.

I did not get the script and locations until late last night. Send few emails asking for it the last 3 days.

There was no multicam. No pans. only tripod and 1 by 1 shots.

Just different takes from different angles.

All they we shot maybe total of 20 lines of dialog.

No wide shots which was strange.

They would pull way back but still zoom as a close up.

Very unorganized compared to corporate and docu stuff I have done.

Did not see the PA all day.

The script supervisor was missing most of the time.

The scenes kept changing order all they.

I did not get a definite answer all day.

There was no communication between anybody but the director and the DP. They were whispering to each other....???

Is that normal?

NO Production manager. The AD was getting stressed and trying to run the whole thing.

I asked the AC to point the clapper towards me every time the change so I can name my tracks.

I was surprisingly quick changing the file names and had to rename after a take only once.

We were supposed to finish at 5pm but finished at 8:30.

Question:

Is it a common practice to keep all the actors read there lines even though they are not in frame and have just 1 or 2 lines.

We finished with the judge before noon but they kept  them till the end.

Also one of the characters was not even in the frame but we had to wait for him 10 minutes to come back and say "YES" twice.

I hinted to maybe use somebody else to "read in" "YES" twice but they did not agree.

The good news is a friend sound mixer is coming tomorrow to work for free which was the greatest new I could Here! (:

Sorry about the chaotic sentences. I am hungry tired and a little frustrated.

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What is the purpose of actors off camera reading the lines?

I think for a couple of reasons:

a) it helps the on-camera actors with their performances. Some productions just use a stand-in; I think it's a classy move for the "real" actors to stay and do their lines.

B) it helps when the director watches dailies later on to evaluate the scene.

c) it helps the editor when they put everything together to understand the scene in context.

You don't necessarily have to mike the off-camera dialog, but that's a whole philosophical discussion. I see both sides of that (no pun intended). In television, generally in dailies I saw and heard a lot of off-camera dialog that was miked, but they were often shooting with two or more cameras, so I think the sound mixer was just covering all possibilities.

No question, a courtroom scene is very difficult. I admired the crew on Boston Legal for doing this flawlessly, week after week, and making it look easy. And there were very, very long, complex dialog scenes with James Spader and Bill Shatner, doing very long, involved speeches with tricky camera work. Amazing work.

Watch some of those shows and get a sense of what they were doing. Tons of 5- and 6-minute uninterrupted takes, just amazing work.

--Marc W.

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the below tends to apply to amateur shoots:

" Is that normal? "

yes, all that, and more!

" the AD was getting stressed and trying to run the whole thing. "

it is the 1st AD's job to run the set,  and a good 1st does it without getting stressed.

" supposed to finish at 5pm but finished at 8:30. "

yep, not too bad, actually!

" We finished with ... before noon but they kept  them till the end. "

it is quite normal on "real shoots" to have all the actors acting on all the shots, even when they are not in them, so if the Judge had lines (even "yes") in the scene, even off camera, s/he would stay.  Jack Nicholson stayed, and played, for every angle of every scene he was in on movies, like "A Few Good Men"; that is a common courtesy amongst actors!  it is also possible that another shot, with that actor on camera, could become needed, or added. the actor is not finished, until the scene is finished, though sometimes for special reasons, like 2nd unit, ADR, publicity, etc.,the actor may be cut loose.  However, releasing or holding actors is not your department!! " I hinted to maybe use somebody else to "read in" "YES"  " NOPE, that is the 1st AD's territory, if the actor has a problem, they can discuss it with the AD... The moral: when you discuss anything with other departments, choose your issues carefully!  How would you like the AD telling you how to do sound??  and besides, you may need the AD on your side to get something you do need for sound...

" no dailies. And the most bizarre : No backup and transfers all day. "

then they won't know for three months if they really "got it"... and with a missing script super, they are likely to find continuity problems, too!  As for no transfers throughout the day,  that is not really unusual...

" I asked the AC (aka clapper) to point the clapper towards me every time the change so I can name my tracks. "

Actually, naming the takes is the script super's gig, but good communication and cross-checking with the "clapper" is always in style; often the 'clapper' (person) announces the Scene and Take info (the voice slate) before closing...  For a one person sound department, that is one less thing to deal with, as you are already under staffed.

" had you first told us that this was a film being shot by students "

I got that you were telling us it was much more advanced than that when you said: " I have worked on dramas but most of them were semi  amateur. "...implying this was above that level, when in fact it is below that level! (or does 'semi-amateur' mean they are below even amateur standing??

guess you are the only professional (as in: 'makes a living doing this') on the shoot...

" I am hungry "

another low/no budget issue; like an army, a movie crew travels on its stomach

" a little frustrated. "

only a little?? not too bad, then.

" that's what your spelling implied "

yeah, that's it!

and lo is lower than low, and closer to no...

low-no ??  lo-no ??

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Kudos to everyone, I have learned a lot in this thread, it is packed with great insight and experience.

I can see Rado how one can get into your situation. I was recently offered to do a low budget feature length drama. They told me how much money they had for production sound (significantly less than what I or even a boom op would regularly charge) and said that I could decide whether I wanted to pay a boom op with a part of that money or keep it all to myself and do one man sound, or even get someone who would boom for free(!). While the credits would have been nice, I ended up declining the offer. The line needs to be drawn somewhere. My experience is that the less they pay, the less respect you get on set and the worse you're treated.

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Nowadays, "low budget" has to be redefined, maybe that's what your spelling implied Senator, "lo-budget."  Rado's film in the past would have been called a "student film," but if this is the work of students with money, what do you call it then?  Lower budget, lowest budget, really low budget, almost no budget, some budget, a little budget, minute budget, loose change, my trust fund, or is it your allowance?

Ultra-ultra-ultra low!  notallthere.gif

I've dug in my heels on two recent jobs and turned them down over issues like these. I think the producers were bewildered that there actually are people who have a bottom line below which they won't go.

There's far too many neophyte producers in LA who have crazy, unrealistic ideas of what a realistic budget is. It's all I can do to stop myself from saying, "you need to hold on, regroup, and raise some more money to shoot this thing the right way."

Student films I can understand -- provided they're not asking professionals to work on it. Get students to work on it!

--Marc W.

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Rado,

You didn't come to us and say, "I have never worked on a narrative film.  I have an opportunity to help some students on a film, so I am asking for tips to do the job the best I can, considering I will be a one-person sound department."

You presented this as a "professional shoot" and you are quite keen to point out how brilliant you are.  Senator and the others gave sound advice under these circumstances.

I have witnessed Senator teaching, and he does a fine job giving students information they need to move up into professional filmmaking.

Robert

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The thing about the senator was a joke.

I am sorry for the misrepresentation.

Pre production wise it was very organized.

Using a court room. All permits in order.

You can not believe the people I meet here.

The last drama production I had a meeting with had scenes impersonating cops  runing with guns on The Strip without permits.

So being impressed with the pre production was a misleading factor.

Thanks to everybody

Rado,

You didn't come to us and say, "I have never worked on a narrative film.  I have an opportunity to help some students on a film, so I am asking for tips to do the job the best I can, considering I will be a one-person sound department."

You presented this as a "professional shoot" and you are quite keen to point out how brilliant you are.  Senator and the others gave sound advice under these circumstances.

I have witnessed Senator teaching, and he does a fine job giving students information they need to move up into professional filmmaking.

Robert

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