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First Drama shoot - pointers?


RadoStefanov

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Your points are valid and wise.

But I will take the  challenge and try to do my best.

In my world just the fact that they are doing double sound and paying for a mixer is good enough.

I wonder how many movies has Jeff  done in the past being a one man sound?

Jeff?

Honestly, Rado, if they won't hire you an experienced boom operator, they are not going to have "choices" of costumes.  Choices cost money, which they clearly do not have.

And to be frank, your producers may not be "retards", but they are fools for not budgeting a boom operator.  If they don't have the money to properly staff their movie, then they don't have the money to make one.  If they do it anyway, then they'll get what they pay for, but in most cases that's all they care about.  Quality is not longer expected on that type of shoot.

Cheap, fast, good.  Pick two.

Robert

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"Experience keeps a dear school, but fools will learn in no other"

Benjamin Franklin

Only the foolish learn from experience — the wise learn from the experience of others." Romanian Proverb

and that brings us back to the Oscar Wilde quotation I've used before, and above...

" If they don't have the money to properly staff their movie, then they don't have the money to make one. " --certainly not a very good one

" how many movies has Jeff  done in the past being a one man sound? "

how many narrative (aka scripted, aka drama or comedy) movies has Jeff  done in the past being a one man sound?

And what did he (and the moviemakers) learn ??

The Boss, here, will speak for himself.

Keep in mind that doing this as a one-person production sound crew, you will not be learning "how it is done", you will be learning 'how it is not done', and why! 

Please remember, you asked us for these "pointers"!

Seriously, Good Luck, ...and please let us know how it does go...

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Rado,

          Quite some years ago...I got talked into doing a short fiction film by the camera person on the film. I was reluctant in accepting the offer because I was told 'Since it was self-financed film they could not afford a boom-op'. But like I said since the camera person was a friend, I got talked into it. Except for a couple of scenes it was pretty simple. But those two were crucial scenes to the film and I could not do a good job of it. Yes the same people hired me again when they did a fully funded documentary. But I knew I did not (could not) do a good job. Though they hired me again, I wonder how many jobs I lost because there were other producers/directors who saw this film.

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Thanks for all the great info in these tread.

I think it comes to how bored I am with doing corporate video and reality.

My last shoot 2 days ago was about the world premiere of a $150,000 purse.

It was not fun at all but paid very well.

I don't know maybe I am foolish to think that drama will be more interesting.

I am just craving to work on something more creative.

Ultimately that is what I want to do. If not here in US maybe in Europe.

I will  try.

And report back.

Most of all I would like to THANK everybody here for the knowledge, wisdom and understanding.

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Rado,

Another thing to consider is that if they do not have money for a boom operator, it is quite likely they will use as their final mix whatever you give them as a "mix" track.  Giving them ISO lavs will do them no good if they have no money/ability to re-mix them.  And it's unlikely there will be someone in post to "sweeten" your track.  So keep in mind while listening to your headphones that what you hear is what will go on screen.

Robert

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This speaks way to close to the truth for me. I'm on a shoot right now that sounds like the scenario Robert just painted. I'm a one-man-band providing them mainly ISO tracks. Although I'm getting paid, there was no boom op to be had. And they asked me if I knew anyone who would do post for free. Really scary considering I'm putting my name behind it.

I'm fairly new to the production sound side and don't want to turn away money but I don't want to continue putting my name behind sub-par movies. Where does one draw the line?

Rado,

Another thing to consider is that if they do not have money for a boom operator, it is quite likely they will use as their final mix whatever you give them as a "mix" track.  Giving them ISO lavs will do them no good if they have no money/ability to re-mix them.  And it's unlikely there will be someone in post to "sweeten" your track.  So keep in mind while listening to your headphones that what you hear is what will go on screen.

Robert

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Everyone's line is different and the only way to know where to draw YOUR line is by doing a personal inventory.  What are your goals, as in, what would you like to get out of the experience?  For instance, four things I can think of that a person might want to get out of being involved in a project are 1) money, 2) creative satisfaction, 3) needed experience, 4) credit (as in improving your credentials).

Having taken the personal inventory, you should have a better understanding of yourself and "what floats your boat."  When you get an offer, you can then weigh each of your needs against what you realistically can expect to get out of the project being offered, and decide if, on balance, the outcome will be satisfactory.

Also, ask yourself, "After it's finished, will I be glad I took the job?"

An example is, one production company that wanted to produce a script of mine expected I'd jump at the offer without blinking an eye.  Before the meeting, in my mind I itemized three things I was interested in achieving from the deal.  It didn't necessarily have to be all three, but at least enough of one, or better yet, a good balance of two or three.  Toward those needs, in the meeting I determined that 1) They could offer no money up front (the term "deferred" is movie talk for "don't ever expect any money").  2) They didn't get the humor in the script and, listening to the changes they wanted to make, my creative satisfaction would have been nil.  3) If they did to the story what I thought they'd do to it I wouldn't even want to put my name on the finished project.  Realizing I'd get basically nothing that I needed out of the deal, it was easy to say, "I'll pass," and move along.

Understanding your personal needs should give you a much better handle on where to draw your line.

John B., cas

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That is always my goal. Very often when I mix and post I  just manually balance phrases that jump out. Then Light Eq and light compression.

Most my work goes to a video editor that does not touch the sound.

Rado,

Another thing to consider is that if they do not have money for a boom operator, it is quite likely they will use as their final mix whatever you give them as a "mix" track.  Giving them ISO lavs will do them no good if they have no money/ability to re-mix them.  And it's unlikely there will be someone in post to "sweeten" your track.  So keep in mind while listening to your headphones that what you hear is what will go on screen.

Robert

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nobody sees, or hears these movies.

Other than the folks that make "These movies" which is a great reason to not do them at all. Or to make your credit for the show (especially declining to be credited) part of the deal memo or letter of agreement you create for the project.

Something I wish I had done when I was younger. Learn from our mistakes.

Best regards,

Jim

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Thanks John. This is a good formula to follow future gigs and will definitely help in determining if a gig is worth the money or losing whatever hair I have left. Rado, I'll come boom for ya...don't have to twist my arm to get to Vegas :)

Everyone's line is different and the only way to know where to draw YOUR line is by doing a personal inventory.  What are your goals, as in, what would you like to get out of the experience?  For instance, four things I can think of that a person might want to get out of being involved in a project are 1) money, 2) creative satisfaction, 3) needed experience, 4) credit (as in improving your credentials)...

John B., cas

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Rado, why not figure out one of the early days of the shoot when you can get a boom op friend of yours to come over and boom for you. It may change things for the producers when they see how smoothly the sound department functions... maybe the tracks for the day can be the evidence... this may probably change their mind about how things should be.

-vin

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there you go - Pete@twenty7pix is your go-to guy. Maybe you can give him your couch in the nice house you have and buy him his drink(s)... :)

sound is about innovation, we place mics, rig them, use various ways to lav, etc etc etc, we're always innovating. so why not innovate the way you will work on this project as well. going with what i just posted - maybe the producers will be happy to pay for pete once they get to realize how much his presence can make a diff...

-vin

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I've done 1 feature film with out a boom op.  I will never do it again.  If I get a call for any sort of scripted film work, the first thing out of my mouth is I won't do it without a boom op who will be payed.  90% of the time the conversation ends there. 

It's a low budget shoot.  Not even thinking about not having a boom op, you already have an upward battle.  I can almost guarantee that the AD will be particularly quick to be on your case about doing your job.  I rarely have  worked a low budget shoot where the AD knew how to be respectful to people and still do his or her job.  The good AD's get the professional jobs where the shoot is properly crewed up. 

It's a low budget shoot.  So most likely the DP is problem somewhat experienced, but is probably looking at this shoot as an opportunity to really make some art to ad some real BLING to his reel.  Chances are he's the gaffer as well, meaning he's got plenty on his plate as well.  He or she is not going to be very concerned about anything sound related.  Don't expect any compromises from the DP unless maybe he or she is your best friend and has been your entire life.  Just hope that the 1st and 2nd AC's are friendly, and they generally are.  They can really be helpful to you in your situation.  Good allies in your uphill battle.

If you're lucky they've hired a Script Super.  Wouldn't be surprised if they did though.  The scripty can help you out with some basic note taking if they're cool.  I would let them know of any noises that may have been a problem on a take. 

You'll probably get frustrated and tired by the end of the day.  Keep in mind that you're not the only one who is probably feeling that way.  Be considerate of others no matter what, but also stick up for yourself.  You have alot on your plate, someone will make a comment about you sitting down while they're doing work.  Usually a grip.  Point out that that they'll be sitting around while you're carrying a chestful of gear and swinging a boom around, so where's the problem. 

Help if you feel like helping, but don't let in interfere with you doing your job.  You are the sound dept. for this project and no one is going to speak up for you when they're waiting for you.  No one will give you a hand if needed either.  Generally because they don't have a clue about anything you do.

And if anyone gives you a problem about,"Waiting On Sound", just use it for your argument for why you need a boom op.

Hope I didn't come off too negative, but this has been my experience on many low-budget film shoots, both feature length and shorts.

Jason Hemmerlin

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DO not have any sound friends in Las Vegas.

This city is strange.

Rado, why not figure out one of the early days of the shoot when you can get a boom op friend of yours to come over and boom for you. It may change things for the producers when they see how smoothly the sound department functions... maybe the tracks for the day can be the evidence... this may probably change their mind about how things should be.

-vin

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Real court room.

I asked about that. no mic in front of the judge.

I am thinking mkh 8040 plant on mic stand. Why did I loose my mic clamps????????

2 lavs and a boom.

First time I need more then 4 channels.

Most real court rooms, and all court rooms in the movies, have mic's set right in front of the judge.  No need to worry about the wide shoots if you start the day with the mic's on the desk already. ;)

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Rado, on a court room drama I have worked on we would use CUB-01's on the judge on the wide shots and boom the tights. The wides were always wide enough to hide the CUB wherever we needed. And the tights were always tight enough to not see the CUB, and it was always boomable. Unless of course for the obvious Wide/Tight, then the CUB played the whole scene. Sometimes we would have to move it a bit. You can easily block the mic from camera with a book or papers which always seem to a part of the judges desk. The lavs were hit or miss, depending on the sex of the judge due to the judges robes. They were always very thick and scratchy. Podium mics seemed to never work because wherever we wanted it to capture the sound and keep the continuity of the sound, was never good for camera, in that it blocked the face or didn't look good for composition. So we just avoided those. Good Luck, sounds like you have your hands full with this one.

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" Wouldn't be surprised if they did though.   "

I think most of us would be surprised if they did, though!

" DO not have any sound friends in Las Vegas.

This city is strange. "

while you are "the one on this forum", there are several folks doing sound in LAS, add "networking" to your "to do" list

ongoing excellent advice...

but instead of living in the past, and now that you know how the production functions, you need to be considering tomorrows shots (that is why the call sheet gives you the next couple days work, and why there are production schedule breakdowns (day of days, etc)...

" Real court room.

I asked about that. no mic in front of the judge. "

" and all court rooms in the movies, have mic's (often Schoeps!!) set right in front of the judge. "

you put it there, and in other places: witness stand, lawyer tables, lawyer podium, etc!)

"First I speak to the Production Designer " ... " discussion then takes us to the Set Decorator "

it is lo budget, do they have them? or is this all done by the moviemaker??

If the Set Decorator agrees,  " ... " Working with the other departments in advance can help you achieve the sound you want "

and of course all this comes from actually being involved in the preproduction...

" the Set Decorator just might have had money to rent microphones for that set. "

and once again: that 'it's lo-budget' thing...

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On a shoot of such limited resources, I would simply tell someone that in order to get good sound they must have microphones placed properly on the tables.  Honestly, if the PD has issues, he will likely be overruled if the director/producer is faced with looping everything, especially since they did not hire a boom operator.

You've been asked to seriously compromise your entire soundtrack, so I don't think you need to be delicate about your needs from the art department.

Robert

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