The best "chain" for firewire

[ptalsky]

Hey all,

Not sure if this is better here or in the Mac section.  My question is, if I'm going with BoomRecorder and have my mixer and an external hard drive is it better to go Mac->Mixer->HD or Mac->HD->Mixer.  My instinct says the HD should be as close to the Mac in the chain as possible, but just want to see if anyone has had good or bad experiences either way.

Thanks, and thank you to everyone for all of the useful information and to our host who keeps things on topic and topical.  Happy and safe holidays to all!

Phil

[Jeff Wexler]

I am not an expert on this setup and the answer will relate in part to what exactly is the "mixer" in the chain of events. The usual practice is that the the hook up should be Mac > Hardware Interface > External Hard Drive. All software should be resident on the boot drive, usually the internal hard drive of the computer. The external drive should hold all the media files associated with the project. The external drive, of course, can only be hooked up AFTER the hardware interface if the interface provides 2 Firewire ports. If the host computer provides 2 fully qualified Firewire ports, one port can be used for the interface and one for the external drive.

I am sure others will chime in here, people who have had real world experience (or more extensive knowledge of Firewire structure and throughput), and everything that I have said here relates ONLY to Macs --- I have very little experience with PC's and Firewire.

Regards,  Jeff Wexler

[John Steigerwald]

I would concur with Jeff that you'd want your interface as close to the CPU as possible to minimize any latency (appreciable or not) at the front end.

If your computer has multiple firewire ports, it would be best, IMO, to connect both your interface and your drive directly and avoid daisy chaining them. 

[taylormadeaudio]

I've recorded a few features using a couple different configurations, the latest of which utilizes the following signal path:

mics -> mixer -> I/O (MOTU's 828mkII) -> MacMini (Metacorder) -> external HD (1394A -- MacMini's don't support the 1394B protocol unfortunately) 

The best way to look at it is to consider external drives as just an extention of the computer's storage space (you're really only using the external drive(s) for file storage as opposed to the computer's onboard HD because who wants to clog their computer's HD up with a bunch of dialog iso's?  The external drive shouldn't have any bearing on the latency (of playback, I assume?) because that's all handled by the software and I/O -- HD is just storing files for later retrieval.

I've always used the external drives in this fashion and never had a problem on set or a complaint from post.  I've used a G4 set-up running MOTU's DP4 (and later switched to Metacorder) as well as a MacMini rig (smaller footprint) also with Metacorder -- I have yet to really drag this newer config. thru the mud (the only difference is the MacMini's incompatibility with 1394B drives) but the initial tests have all been rock solid -- as many as 10 tracks, 24bit 48k -- all frame rates from 30 to 23.98 -- not a single hitch.  I've had good luck with LaCie drives, but you may want to ask around a little if you're still in the planning stages -- I've heard horror stories about LaCie drives overheating -- never had a problem myself, but I've only mixed half a dozen or so features this way.  In fact, if someone can reccommend something more stable, I'd love the heads up.  : )

[ptalsky]

Drive-wise, I have been using the newer Seagate 300GB 16MB cache drives that are dual FW and USB.  I have one that has been running on my desk serving two computers (one through FW, one through a shared folder network connection - NEVER try to hook up two computers to one drive) and it has been running for about 4 months now non-stop (granted not writing to the drive all the time, but in use a lot, mostly doing renders) and it has never even gotten warm (the power brick does get a bit warm, but not bad).  And, best of all, you can get the Seagate at Fry's for about $129 when it is on sale.

Another drive I'm considering for my cart is the Maxtor Terabyte system (yes, way too much drive space).  The benefit of this system is it can run the RAID option that allows for mirroring of the two drives (500GBx2) so you get additional backup in case something goes wrong, and it's all automatic.  Fry's had these on sale for $319 a few weeks ago.

Phil

[John Steigerwald]

Another drive I'm considering for my cart is the Maxtor Terabyte system (yes, way too much drive space). 

For what it's worth, the only drive that ever crashed on me was a Maxtor.  Kaplui, nothing recoverable.  This was 4-5 years ago and it may have been a bad egg, but I've stuck with Western Digital or Seagate drives and have had no issues since.

YMMV

The external drive shouldn't have any bearing on the latency (of playback, I assume?) because that's all handled by the software and I/O

Latency was probably the wrong word.  I just don't want the data from my front end having to travel through another firewire bridge before it gets to my CPU.  Akin to taking the shortest possible path to tape in the studio.  Force of habit I guess. 

[taylormadeaudio]

Hey Steigs,

I kinda figured that's what you meant based on the original post.  I know what you mean.  I keep my drives on a really short leash as well.  I had a Western Digital (they're outta the Bay Area, right?) 300G on my cart for almost three years and the only gripe I had with it is the bearings on the cooling fan started whining -- making it hard to get my cart up close and personal in many situations -- a mute point now that I'm using a Zantrex 1800 sine wave inverter (talk about loud cooling fans) but with all the noise generated by cleaning mechanisms on HD cams and cooling fans on playback units at video village, no one ever really notices... plus, it's almost protocol anymore to have 2 video villages -- one (single monitor close to set) for the Director and then the P/B cart for the producers, scripty, PETA, SAG, IA reps...

I digress... noisy drives... yeah... my LaCie drives are pretty quiet, but now I'm all paranoid about a meltdown based on some horror stories I've heard.  I think it's luck of the draw.  If you get one made on a Monday or a Friday, you're pretty much screwed.

Anyhow...

Hey, do you know a guy named Chris Clifford (one of my boom ops -- he's the A2 on Extreme Makeover HD's Alpha team)  He mentioned someone named Steigs (how many Soundguys are there named Steigs?)

[John Steigerwald]

The ol' Monday-Friday clause..lol

It does seem to be luck of the draw.  I've seen other people with Maxtors with no issues.  I'm just leery after losing the one.  Once bitten and all that.

Yep, I do know Chris.  He was the local we used in Idaho last season and he just got sucked in when the A2 spot on Alpha opened up.  Good guy and a great asset to the show.

[taylormadeaudio]

Yes, I usually call the manufacturer and ask if they can tell me the specific day on which a potential acquisition was 'born' just for that reason -- just kidding... but I bet it's true -- if there was a way to actually get a broad enough database of that kind of information... God, I'm a geek.

Chris Clifford -- yeah, I figured as much -- he's mentioned you a few times.  It sounds like you guys have a good time.  It's been a real challenge trying to find someone to fill in for him on the features -- he's got a great attitude and work ethic -- a definite 'lights-on' kinda guy.  I knew it from the first day we met (he was a PA on a commercial gig I was doing up here in Spokane.)  We just hung out a few days ago (he was up visiting family)... anyhow, tell him I said Hi.  peace