TC slate - uses

[soundtrane]

In the PAL world, where there are no pull-ups and downs, simple divisible frame rates, how much relevance does a TC slate hold, in a situation where production sound is being recorded BWF with metadata and TC, the lab does not really use TC and matches sound for dailies (this is done in a pic edit room). Could one simply use a dumb wood slate after all in this situation?

best

-vin

[takev]

Hi vin,

In the past films where often filmed with something low tech as a dumb wood slate. And I am wondering from a directors point of view (I want to make a film myself), if timecode is actually worth the trouble, you can easily get within a frame accuracy by lining it up using a dumb slate, especially if you have a guide track.

Don't get me wrong, there is definitely a use for it when you are recording very long takes with multiple cameras such as concert registrations.

Cheers,

  Take

[larry long]

I know of a series here in Wilmington that has used dumb slates for over 3 seasons, and until this season was recorded on a nagra. Then with a new mixer they changed to a Deva II and post flipped out because they had problems with the Fat 16 files it output, and complained that he was using old technology, errr how bout that 3 seasons on a freakin' nagra. Anyway he is now using a pd6.

  So I'll have to ask if they changed up to a smart slate at this point.

  I think the main reason to use a TC slate is to save time in telecine for dailies. I'm sure Phillip P or any number of folks here could elaborate more on this.

  Later Tater,

Larry

[takev]

Telecine would be easier with timecode I no doubt.

I don't think I will have enough money to shoot on film, and definitely not for rushes I don't think. I wonder how many times rushes are done here in europe anyway.

For video rushes will probably be much easier, especially if you record a guide track on it as well, which would be good enough for checking the quality.

During editing you have enough time to hand sync the audio.

Cheers,

  Take

[RPSharman]

If you are recording your audio file-based, and especially if your video is file-based (P2), and your mixer and AC and scripty have kept matching notes, then syncing production audio later in a NLE editor is easy even without a slate at all.

That said, if you have a timecode slate, it would seem better to use it whenever you can.  A visual reference to be sure your camera and sound reports match is sensible. If you have to rent one as a line item to make a little movie, and you have the time later, then use your money on something that'll end up on screen.  Otherwise what's the harm in using a TC slate?

[Philip Perkins]

Telecine, as it is practiced in the USA in telecine bays where pix and sound are synced and transferred together, is possible w/o TC slates or Aaton code, but no one wants to do it that way.  The telecine facility, upon seeing no visible TC slates, will blow off the bid they made and go to time-and-materials and the producer will be unhappy.  Nowadays everything is scheduled so tightly that they really count on the speed of having visble TC on slates and NL files w/ no transport issues or unaccountable aborts as w/ DAT or 1/4 inch.  However, if the telecine is MOS and the sound is being synced in an NL editing system, then you are free to invent whatever system suits everyone involved--there are a lot of ways to skin that cat, incl. no TC slates.  In this scenario good notes are important, actually naming the files w/ scene + take numbers is much more important than it is in traditional telecine, and you have to work out when, how and if pulldown will be done to the audio.

Philip Perkins

[ptalsky]

I guess the real question is, if you have a TC slate already, why not use it?  The most it will do is cost you some extra batteries.  I do lots of low budget projects, mostly shot on DVX/HVX cams from Panasonic (no TC capabilities).  I still use TC for everything, because it does give you one additional verification/synch point if the sound reports get lost.  The slate is still in the image, and the header in the bwf has the TC embedded.  So, it becomes one more level of reduncancy, which isn't a bad thing.  (And we all know redundancy is a good thing - I recently had a director call me and ask if I still had the sound files from a shoot that took place over a year ago - he was finally getting down to edit and had lost the DVD's I handed off each day.  Lucky for him, I keep a backup set of DVD's at home.  Doesn't cost me anything, but pays off in good will.)

Phil

[takev]

Hi,

I guess that is a good reason to put the media in a bank vault. I think I still have one.

If we already have a TC slate, yes, I would agree :-)

Cheers,

    Taek

[Dragos Stanomir]

  TC slate was good when sync was made directly in telecine, but that times was gone 3, 4 years ago. Is waste of time and money, because InDaw from Aaton make sync better and faster whith normal slate. An InDaw is 100 times cheaper than a telecine, and ( in Europe at least) nobody pay to sync in telecine , where one hour to sync is much more expensive than in NL system ( even in Avid).

  I was working in a post productions house ,whith a telecine ,few years ,and we don`t use in last 5 years anymore TC slate for sync, even if was use it in production because " they have it".

  The only reason for TC slate is when you have a complicate videoclip whith playback , and need to know where to sync the music, if wasn`t take guide track.

  And is very usefull for office producers, of corse, to know when start the work ....  :-))

Dragos Stanomir

[Jeff Wexler]

  TC slate was good when sync was made directly in telecine, but that times was gone 3, 4 years ago. Is waste of time and money, because InDaw from Aaton make sync better and faster whith normal slate. An InDaw is 100 times cheaper than a telecine, and ( in Europe at least) nobody pay to sync in telecine , where one hour to sync is much more expensive than in NL system ( even in Avid).Dragos Stanomir

Agreed that telecine is NOT the place to establish sync, but here in the US, it is the ONLY place where dailies are synced (unless it is a fiolm job making mag transfes which is extremely rare these days).

Regards,  Jeff Wexler