brakes for your cart? 20inch wheels on a custom cart.

[Izen Ears]

Wow, rolling over corn across a cornfield that musta been fun. My cart's fatter tires might have helped, but I bet it would've made it worse! That's an argument for a plywood bridge, Egyptian style! I once worked a gig that had a long foot path to set, and it rained apocalyptic-style and they had to purchase about 150 4'x4' plywood boards to make a path all the way out there. Lotta work for the grips but it worked like a charm though for all the carts and even the crane rolled out over it.

Of course you're so right about the BMX tires being able to handle massive pressure. I think Beefcake (my sound cart) is probably 250 - 280 pounds, which I guess could be the body weight of bulky BMX-er... But I would need a proper two-sided fork, which currently design limitations make that impossible.

I'm very interested in the single fork tire you mention. I too had to go with only attaching to single side but I used 3/4" solid steel tube for the axle so it's not bent yet!

Dan Izen

I got my wheelchair brakes, and did some quick and dirty work on some scrap aluminum stock to make mounting blocks. I just need my mounting hardware to arrive from 8020 and I'll give them a try.

@Dan before I put on the 80's mags, I was using 20" spoked wheels from an Oxy-Acetelene cart. I don't know what your cart weighs (heck, I don't know what my cart weighs), but they were pretty stable. If the 16" ones are of good quality, they should be stiffer than the 20" ones. The only thing I wonder is if they would be more of a kids "toy" bike. I figured that my BMX wheels were made for the abuse of freestyle/BMX riding. A 200lb rider flying down a hill and over jumps etc is a pretty good amount of force. The current Issue I have is that I bent my axels a bit. They are front wheels that were made for support on both sides. I just spun them in and support from one side. We did a feature that required rolling through corn fields with lots of corn on the ground, and that beat the heck out of my cart. When I get a break I am going to look for, or make, some sort of reenforced axel that can take the mounting on one side. I know something exists because some BMX bikes use a single sided fork. It's just a question of possibly making something more functional myself. The 20" wheels do give you the ability to roll right over lots of things that smaller wheels can not. Maybe that's not an issue for you, but it seems to help us out a lot.

[johnpaul215]

@Dan are there pictures of your cart online? I'm curious about these tires!

I have definitely thought it would be worth having wide balloon tires, especially for something like sand.

I'm going to research these single sided axels, but I wonder if they need a special hub. My other thought is a custom axel sort of like a giant nail. Big flat washer on the outside with the shaft going to the inside of the cart. On the inside I could drill for a cotter pin. That would allow for a quick tire removal. I think even my welding skills could make those.

A few times I have filmed in an old warehouse building that still has the in-floor shipping scale. Maybe This job will go past one of those and I can weigh the cart. I know the Optima BlueTop is a good contributor to the total, but I am guessing it could be 200lbs.

[Jeff Wexler]

Okay, here hopefully will appear some photos of the "wheelchair" brakes against the 20 inch BMX wheels. I held a piece of paper behind the brake to help the brake stand out, as my cart is black on black

Cheers,

RVD

Speaking of "brakes" maybe it's just the picture but it looks like this brake system would eventually brake the tire. It looks more like a method to puncture the tire instead of just a brake. If it sits for a long time with the brake engaged, doesn't it dent the tire?

[Izen Ears]

Ah it all makes sense now thank you. This is similar to the "brakepads" on those muscle carts the grips use for sand bags, they sort just jam into the tire to stop it. Seems to work very very well with no apparent wear on the tires. Of course those tires are way smaller and fatter, perhaps more load-bearing.

One thing is that your wheels are in a fork making it pretty straightforward to suspend a brake at the center of the tire. I think yours is the simplest and most effective brakes, I'll have to go into the shop and redesign the cart to make something similar... Which is something I want to do anyway... thanks for the pix RVD!

Dan Izen

[johnpaul215]

Thanks RVD, those are the same style of wheelchair brakes I have. Turns out I ordered the wrong nuts from 8020, so I can't mount them yet.

[Jim Tanenbaum, CAS]

Hi Mirror,

My cart is a single A&J case, so all the interconnecting cables are on the inside and remain connected. Since I no longer use mike cables, there's not much to see on the back. Empty cable hooks (I sometimes store the AC stinger I use to charge batteries overnight there, or hang a bull horn, etc), a plastic tube that stores my 816s, 5-pin female XLRs that used to feed the boom ops, and some trapdoor holes for the mike cables that used to feed the Cooper mixer. Oh, and some holes where the clamps that held the ATNs and PARs that charged the Nicads in my Nagras used to be. Ah, progress.

[Izen Ears]

If you don't mind me asking, what cables do you use instead of mic cables now? I mean they look like XLRs coming out the side of the Cooper.

I've seen fellas use those D-SUB connectors between cases and those wires are way-ass thinner than any XLR, but I happen to not trust those connectors so I'm stuck with the weight and bulk of XLR...

In fact I'm about to separate the wireless from the mixer/deck/monitors, which are now all residing in a too-big 14RU case, so I will need to feed at least 10 balanced signals from one case to another, I wonder if there's a thinner option than some fatass XLR snake, I don't think they even make 10-channel XLR snake I'd have to make one or something. This has nothing to do with cart brakes oh well.

Dan Izen

Hi Mirror,

My cart is a single A&J case, so all the interconnecting cables are on the inside and remain connected. Since I no longer use mike cables, there's not much to see on the back. Empty cable hooks (I sometimes store the AC stinger I use to charge batteries overnight there, or hang a bull horn, etc), a plastic tube that stores my 816s, 5-pin female XLRs that used to feed the boom ops, and some trapdoor holes for the mike cables that used to feed the Cooper mixer. Oh, and some holes where the clamps that held the ATNs and PARs that charged the Nicads in my Nagras used to be. Ah, progress.

[studiomprd]

" Since I no longer use mike cables, there's not much to see on the back. "

I think it is pretty clear that Jim still plugs cables into the mixer from his wireless RX's.

[Izen Ears]

I think it's pretty clear that I was asking for clarification, which I still haven't gotten despite your post, but thanks for chiming in.

Dan

" Since I no longer use mike cables, there's not much to see on the back. "

I think it is pretty clear that Jim still plugs cables into the mixer from his wireless RX's.

[Jeff Wexler]

I think it's pretty clear that I was asking for clarification, which I still haven't gotten despite your post, but thanks for chiming in.

Dan

I think the clarification is as follows: what Jim meant was that when he first designed his cart, most cables coming and going from the cart were mic cables --- for example, duplex cable(s) for boom operator(s), mic cable to plant mics, cables to and from video assist (when that started), etc. Now, so much of the work is done wirelessly (I don't know if Jim T. is still on duplex "hard wired" mic cable for his boom operators) he no longer has a bunch of mic cable that needs to have a home on his cart.

[Izen Ears]

Right. Yes. Because I've got to route cables "case to case," I was asking to see if Jim found a thinner alternative to 10xXLRs, or if he was able to lose the XLRs due to just going wireless. I apologize for being both off-topic and unclear!

Dan Izen

I think the clarification is as follows: what Jim meant was that when he first designed his cart, most cables coming and going from the cart were mic cables --- for example, duplex cable(s) for boom operator(s), mic cable to plant mics, cables to and from video assist (when that started), etc. Now, so much of the work is done wirelessly (I don't know if Jim T. is still on duplex "hard wired" mic cable for his boom operators) he no longer has a bunch of mic cable that needs to have a home on his cart.

[studiomprd]

" a thinner alternative to 10xXLRs, "

many 12 channel "mult" cables are thinner than 10x standard XLR's

[Jeff Wexler]

" a thinner alternative to 10xXLRs, "

many 12 channel "mult" cables are thinner than 10x standard XLR's

All of the 4-pair and 8-pair cable I have used (for snakes and interconnects) has been smaller in outside diameter than the equivalent 4 or 8 individual mic lines.

[Jeff Wexler]

All of the 4-pair and 8-pair cable I have used (for snakes and interconnects) has been smaller in outside diameter than the equivalent 4 or 8 individual mic lines.

This topic has strayed from anything to do with "Brakes for your Cart", oh, well. Adding to what I mention above, you could think about using a couple of ETS InstaSnake boxes to provide small diameter cable (CAT5) for your case-to-case connections. This would give you easy connect-disconnect and the smallest diameter (easily replaceable) cable.

[Izen Ears]

Yes this topic has strayed I apologize, ever wish you never asked a question?

The InstaSnakes would be great if there were a single box with 10 channels, and if I had the room for these boxes, for now it seems the most channels one can get is 4 (makes sense with the cat5 thing). So yes if I had room for three of these 4-channel boxes I would only have three cat5 cables between the cases. Those boxes are not made to fit into a rack case, if they were the XLRs would be side-mounted for a 4x lower profile. Oh well, too bad it would be silly to invest in an Aviom system to go 3 feet.

ETS has some 8-channel boxes but they look too big and also for a different purpose (needs AC and is too big etc).

And I do use an 8-way XLR (24 wires) snake and those wires are much thinner, but I wanted to know if there was a way to get away from all XLR (as in the ETS systems). For the next cart I need 10 channels (8 wires, Comtek, & IFB) and I will figure something out! I'll say it once more - ever wished you never asked a question?

So how about those brakes?

Dan Izen

This topic has strayed from anything to do with "Brakes for your Cart", oh, well. Adding to what I mention above, you could think about using a couple of ETS InstaSnake boxes to provide small diameter cable (CAT5) for your case-to-case connections. This would give you easy connect-disconnect and the smallest diameter (easily replaceable) cable.

[johnpaul215]

So I also found that the brakes did not really work as hoped. I'm not sure if my off-road tires were the issue, or the brakes were not hitting the tire quite right. I'm done the film and back to some bag doc jobs and ENG things, so I will hopefully have time to nail this down before my next cart job. I'll post some pictures of my mounting when I get a chance.

This is the same basic method that holds a muscle cart with a few hundred pounds of sand bags, so I don't doubt it will work when dialed in.

[Jim Tanenbaum, CAS]

Sorry, I've been in China again, and didn't have time to look at the comments for a while. There are no mike-level cables connected to my cart anymore. My boom operators are on Zaxcom Stereoline radio links, so I can get PLs back from them if I need to, in addition to the boom mike. I also have three Comtek xmtrs, so they can each hear only their own boom if necessary. The Stereoline xmtrs are great for plant mikes because I can get two mikes on one radio channel. And for tow car shots, this avoids having to run mike level signals over the hitch next to the HMI light feeders. (Previously, I used a Cooper mike-to-line box in the picture car to boost the signals 60 dB before sending them up front, but I still occasionally had trouble.)

I usually give the vid assist a Comtek rcvr with an XLR adapter cable. If I have to hardwire, I always use a condom (line iso xfmr with a ground break).

While there are several multi-pair cables that are quite small, for most interconnecting cables I build these days I use mike cable I purchased in bulk from Sennheiser -- it's the stainless-steel cable used on MKE-2s. It comes in black and tan. I hate it for lavs, because it carries mechanical noises like a steel beam, but I haven't had a single cable conductor failure in my jumpers. It's so small that I can put ten of them inside 3/8-inch diameter PVC tubing, but I have taken to leaving them unbound, allowing me to arrange them in a flat row if they have to be threaded through a narrow gap. Hope this is the end of the off-topic thread, although I did mention a "ground break". (Or should that be "ground brake"?).