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New FinalCut Pro released


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All we wanted was FCP 8 and they gave us iMovie Pro. I am sure they are leaving the Pro market to Avid with this version of so called FCP X and catering to the far larger market Mr Goodin describes.

CrewC

No, you are right they have decided to abandon the professional market and cater to the you-tube producer. It is a very slick product for the home user to be able to easily string together all those clips of family members being hit in the nuts by wiffle balls and cats falling off furniture into something artistic.

Kind of reminds me of the new Premiere Elements software with the One click to create a movie. Just point it to a folder with your clips and it will do the rest. Step right up newbie editors, no editing knowledge or creativity required.

You will notice that all previous Versions of FCP or FCP Studio are no longer available from Apple. Instant Orphans.

And they are probably only one more OSX update (post Lion) away from total incompatibility as they move to abandon support for 32 bit hardware and software.

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All we wanted was FCP 8 and they gave us iMovie Pro. I am sure they are leaving the Pro market to Avid with this version of so called FCP X and catering to the far larger market Mr Goodin describes.

CrewC

There are other very serious problems besides no OMF. No XML, wants to copy all media to the local drive, cannot exchange projects, cannot track audio clips, can't output to tape, does not support files from ANY pro video cameras at the moment. A few prominent users--owners of facilities--have publicly said they are bailing on FCP. Probably 99% of my clients cut in FCP 5-7, if Apple doesn't come out with a pro version of this new app (and it IS a completely new app, no matter what they call it) pretty quick alternatives will be entertained. I noted the large presence of Adobe Premiere ads on the Creative Cow site next to the forums bashing FCPx. Even if this turns out to be some kind of marketing ploy, I think they have erred in that they have shaken the confidence of some of their most loyal professional users. Makes you wonder: do they not care?

phil p

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Apple's going after more than just YouTubers. The wedding/event market, most DSLR/Zoom-level indies, smaller corporate gigs. I don't know about news and magazine stuff; In my vast 30min experience with a friend's install, I don't have my head around cutting to time with FCPX.

Things I do know:

1) Many established plug-in developers got access to FCPX when it was released yesterday. But some of them already have some pretty cool stuff cooking.

2) Automatic Duck will sell a bunch of copies of their FCPX-compatible AAF/OMF exporter:

http://www.automaticduck.com/products/pefcp/

4) When I get around to buying a Sound Devices PIX recorder (soon, I hope), I'll spring for the Avid DNxHD option.

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Apple are going to end up over-stretched at some point and start making mistakes... They have too many lines to keep them all straight. Sad but inevitable that the future for Apple is a drift to the mainstream.

Arrh no my first post on the new site is bashing Apple.. sorry Jeff

Congratulations on such a smooth move too..!

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Arrh no my first post on the new site is bashing Apple.. sorry Jeff

Congratulations on such a smooth move too..!

No apology necessary, and thank you for the kudos on the move to the new site. Still working on getting the kinks out but I'm pretty happy. I'm not going to weigh in on the whole Final Cut "Pro" revelations at the moment, waiting to see how it all plays out, not because I never question Apple, far from it, but I have been surprised in the past by some of their moves that have looked to be a disaster from the start. I am fully prepared to accept that Apple may have made the decision to abandon the "Pro" market for editing software but I think it coincides with a whole of other issues we talk about here --- that the Pro market is not a static thing and is constantly being re-defined as we speak. Remember, the word "professional" really has its origins in (and I'm loosely paraphrasing) "getting PAID to provide something". If someone can make a hit movie (that means one that MAKES MONEY) using only their iPhone and the next door neighbor's backyard, who is to say the iPhoine is not a Pro device?

Apple, of course, when it was just a computer maker, was already well underway in this whole re-defining process. Again, if someone can produce a hit album in their garage (maybe using Garage Band or ProTools) who needs a "professional" studio. Just ask the owners of all those recording facilities that used to book groups at $100. an hour.

It is also wise to remember that for most of its life, FinalCut Pro from v.1.0 and on up, was still NOT considered professional software when compared to real professional software from Avid. The big attraction for professionals to use FCP was COST! As more and more professionals used FCP, not because it was necessarily better than Avid or more professional, whatever, Avid woke up and lowered the COST. Now the cost is very low, comparatively, for all the systems that can EDIT VIDEO.

For those of us who don't have to use a system everyday in a "professional" workplace, we can sit back and watch what happens. I am sympathetic to those people who are upset that Apple may have shifted gears and left them out in the cold. Anyone remember the last time a major company shifted gears sending shockwaves through the professional editing community? It was Avid, after a 25% investment by Microsoft, announcing that they would no longer support the Mac platform. This was a royal dump on the highest profile group of people using Avid software to edit feature films (on Macs almost exclusively). We could go on and on about this, and I'm sure we will, but the sky isn't falling, it's all still there, maybe up in the iCloud?

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No apology necessary, and thank you for the kudos on the move to the new site. Still working on getting the kinks out but I'm pretty happy. I'm not going to weigh in on the whole Final Cut "Pro" revelations at the moment, waiting to see how it all plays out, not because I never question Apple, far from it, but I have been surprised in the past by some of their moves that have looked to be a disaster from the start. I am fully prepared to accept that Apple may have made the decision to abandon the "Pro" market for editing software but I think it coincides with a whole of other issues we talk about here --- that the Pro market is not a static thing and is constantly being re-defined as we speak. Remember, the word "professional" really has its origins in (and I'm loosely paraphrasing) "getting PAID to provide something". If someone can make a hit movie (that means one that MAKES MONEY) using only their iPhone and the next door neighbor's backyard, who is to say the iPhoine is not a Pro device?

Apple, of course, when it was just a computer maker, was already well underway in this whole re-defining process. Again, if someone can produce a hit album in their garage (maybe using Garage Band or ProTools) who needs a "professional" studio. Just ask the owners of all those recording facilities that used to book groups at $100. an hour.

It is also wise to remember that for most of its life, FinalCut Pro from v.1.0 and on up, was still NOT considered professional software when compared to real professional software from Avid. The big attraction for professionals to use FCP was COST! As more and more professionals used FCP, not because it was necessarily better than Avid or more professional, whatever, Avid woke up and lowered the COST. Now the cost is very low, comparatively, for all the systems that can EDIT VIDEO.

For those of us who don't have to use a system everyday in a "professional" workplace, we can sit back and watch what happens. I am sympathetic to those people who are upset that Apple may have shifted gears and left them out in the cold. Anyone remember the last time a major company shifted gears sending shockwaves through the professional editing community? It was Avid, after a 25% investment by Microsoft, announcing that they would no longer support the Mac platform. This was a royal dump on the highest profile group of people using Avid software to edit feature films (on Macs almost exclusively). We could go on and on about this, and I'm sure we will, but the sky isn't falling, it's all still there, maybe up in the iCloud?

Jeff, I think you are wrong about the perception of FCP as unprofessional, at least from v2 thru 7--that may still be true in a few places in Hollywood but nearly everywhere else besides big time broadcast it is the editor of choice. Which explains why the release of FCPx, while perhaps not being a falling sky, is a MAJOR earthquake in the post world. I guess an equivalent in production sound might be (I hope) the advent of DTV (and now WSVDs) vs. our wireless gear--the changes and worry that brought. (I say I hope since we've managed to soldier through those changes pretty well so far). Perhaps a better equivalent might be the sudden refusal of producers to accept any sort of file delivery other than some esoteric new format that we have to pay royalties to use, and that can only be delivered via an FTP upload directly from the recorder itself. OK, far-fetched, but that's the sort of flat-tire that FCPx is for power users of FCP 7. I agree that Apple often works in mysterious ways, but in discussions over the past few days among friends of mine who, like me, often work for and at Apple, there was agreement that this is an indication that the "ship has turned" so to speak, that a shift in attitude and strategy re their ProApps is being implemented. I think that's what has upset the owners of post facilities most of all--a feeling that they are not so important to Apple anymore and that their needs will be considered to a much reduced degree in future developments. At least this is what I've been hearing....

phil p

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I predict the next shoe to drop at Apple is that they are dropping the Mac Pro desktops. With with the death of FCP 7 and Soundtrack no major Apple based software that needs in case based hardware expansion they have no reason to continue manufacturing that expensive narrow market hardware for power users.

They will just put that development money into new Tablets or iPhones where they can sell new ones to the faithful followers every year. Not to mention the steady flow of cash from subscription based iCloud or iTunes type software to run on those.

They may even drop the iMac and Mac Mini as well and move everything to the iOS platforms including a new TV line with a MS Kinect type of gesture based interface.

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Good points Jeff, and the new system may someday be a better way to work. Personally I would not bet against Apple Inc. But.... At this point in time, a lot of people already have a significant amount of time and money invested into making FCP a pro workflow in their shops/studios/whatevers. There are other systems out there that work w the 5/7 D worlds better than FCP if that is Apples target market. Not sure how it works out, but there will be a platform/program migration. There always is.

BTW, like many, I am waiting for the new Garage Hawks/Peckinpaw/Kubrick or the GarageBand Beatles. It's happening but slower than predicted. She or he will be here someday, but not today. All n all, this is not the end of the world. I still have FCP 7.0.3/whatever I have now.

CrewC

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I predict the next shoe to drop at Apple is that they are dropping the Mac Pro desktops. With with the death of FCP 7 and Soundtrack no major Apple based software that needs in case based hardware expansion they have no reason to continue manufacturing that expensive narrow market hardware for power users.

I think Jobs continues to see the desktop pro market as "prestigious," plus it still makes a profit. Long-term, I see your point: can Apple continue to make machines for a niche market? The latest rumors are that the new desktops will be out in August, and they will be extremely powerful (and pricey).

I think it'll go for another few years, but it's a tough call beyond that. What Apple could do is, just throw in the towel on desktops and just allow the software to run on any PCs running the right chips. Even if they confined it to a set list of X number of high-end machines, this could work.

No question, they're making so much money with iPhones, iPads, and iPods, the computers are relatively minor by comparison. But they do a considerable amount of development work on Mac OSX, so I think it'll hang in there for the forseeable future. Who's to say that they couldn't exist without making computer hardware, just as Microsoft has done for years?

--Marc W.

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There are so any important points, observations, analysis and rants regarding this (well, it's Apple after all, what should I expect) I'm not sure I can respond to all of it. I do not think I am wrong when I mention that FCP was not considered professional, by professionals. It wads of course "the editor of choice" for thousands of people from total newbies to full on professional editors working on feature length movies. But it was the editor of choice, I believe, not because it has better features or wads more capable than Avid, it was because it was accessible and cheap, easy to learn and worked for the most part. The number of complaints I have heard, just casually in relation to FCP and our sound world from professionals that starts out with things like "how can this be considered PRO software when I can't even...".

Regarding hardware, expansion slots have been unnecessary for years as the main processor (at this time for Apple, as much as 8-core etc., etc.) has taken over all functions, the operating systems have matured and the software gets the job done. As long as you can get stuff in to and out of the machine (and with Thunderbolt now that will be easier and faster than it has ever been), there is no need to have hardware that can support expansion slots. Remember, many of these expansion cards were used just to give dual monitor support --- today you can plug a 30" cinema display directly into a MacBook Air! Apple has already announced a major update to the MacPro model and the Mac Mini, both are for niche markets and had been for years.

I agree with Courtney, "the ship has turned" but isn't that the whole history of Apple's success? If it wasn't constantly turning the ship we would all still be working on PCs running DOS. If Apple hadn't turned the ship and introduced a user friendly graphical user interface for the operating system, we would never have had Windows. Jumping to the present, if Apple hadn't come out with the iPhone, do you think there would ever have been so many "smart" phones to choose from? As for Apple putting its energy into selling "the faithful" a new iPhone or iPad, of course they will do this (and I think it is disingenuous to declare that these items are selling only to "the faithful" --- if that were true we would have to give credit to Apple for enslaving 90% of the general population).

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There are so any important points, observations, analysis and rants regarding this (well, it's Apple after all, what should I expect) I'm not sure I can respond to all of it. I do not think I am wrong when I mention that FCP was not considered professional, by professionals. It wads of course "the editor of choice" for thousands of people from total newbies to full on professional editors working on feature length movies. But it was the editor of choice, I believe, not because it has better features or wads more capable than Avid, it was because it was accessible and cheap, easy to learn and worked for the most part. The number of complaints I have heard, just casually in relation to FCP and our sound world from professionals that starts out with things like "how can this be considered PRO software when I can't even...".

Regarding hardware, expansion slots have been unnecessary for years as the main processor (at this time for Apple, as much as 8-core etc., etc.) has taken over all functions, the operating systems have matured and the software gets the job done. As long as you can get stuff in to and out of the machine (and with Thunderbolt now that will be easier and faster than it has ever been), there is no need to have hardware that can support expansion slots. Remember, many of these expansion cards were used just to give dual monitor support --- today you can plug a 30" cinema display directly into a MacBook Air! Apple has already announced a major update to the MacPro model and the Mac Mini, both are for niche markets and had been for years.

I agree with Courtney, "the ship has turned" but isn't that the whole history of Apple's success? If it wasn't constantly turning the ship we would all still be working on PCs running DOS. If Apple hadn't turned the ship and introduced a user friendly graphical user interface for the operating system, we would never have had Windows. Jumping to the present, if Apple hadn't come out with the iPhone, do you think there would ever have been so many "smart" phones to choose from? As for Apple putting its energy into selling "the faithful" a new iPhone or iPad, of course they will do this (and I think it is disingenuous to declare that these items are selling only to "the faithful" --- if that were true we would have to give credit to Apple for enslaving 90% of the general population).

I'm not on Apple about innovation in saying :"the ship has turned", I was trying to let you and other JWsounders understand the reasons for the consternation the new FCP has caused in the post world. Telling me/them that this is business as usual w/ Apple etc isn't very comforting or helpful, any more than us being told that our wireless would be run over by DTV and WSVDs is progress and business as usual helps us w/ wireless decisions. Innovation without making things unnecessarily tough for your core users IS possible, and that's what Apple should have done here, or at least explained themselves better. I'm on the set today using 2 Apple laptops in every shot, I go back with Apple computers at least as far as you do, and have been very involved with the rollouts of a great many of their products from way before the Mac was even invented, so I do have a certain close perspective on these matters.

phil p

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There are so any important points, observations, analysis and rants regarding this (well, it's Apple after all, what should I expect) I'm not sure I can respond to all of it. I do not think I am wrong when I mention that FCP was not considered professional, by professionals. It wads of course "the editor of choice" for thousands of people from total newbies to full on professional editors working on feature length movies. But it was the editor of choice, I believe, not because it has better features or wads more capable than Avid, it was because it was accessible and cheap, easy to learn and worked for the most part. The number of complaints I have heard, just casually in relation to FCP and our sound world from professionals that starts out with things like "how can this be considered PRO software when I can't even...".

Regarding hardware, expansion slots have been unnecessary for years as the main processor (at this time for Apple, as much as 8-core etc., etc.) has taken over all functions, the operating systems have matured and the software gets the job done. As long as you can get stuff in to and out of the machine (and with Thunderbolt now that will be easier and faster than it has ever been), there is no need to have hardware that can support expansion slots. Remember, many of these expansion cards were used just to give dual monitor support --- today you can plug a 30" cinema display directly into a MacBook Air! Apple has already announced a major update to the MacPro model and the Mac Mini, both are for niche markets and had been for years.

I agree with Courtney, "the ship has turned" but isn't that the whole history of Apple's success? If it wasn't constantly turning the ship we would all still be working on PCs running DOS. If Apple hadn't turned the ship and introduced a user friendly graphical user interface for the operating system, we would never have had Windows. Jumping to the present, if Apple hadn't come out with the iPhone, do you think there would ever have been so many "smart" phones to choose from? As for Apple putting its energy into selling "the faithful" a new iPhone or iPad, of course they will do this (and I think it is disingenuous to declare that these items are selling only to "the faithful" --- if that were true we would have to give credit to Apple for enslaving 90% of the general population).

I'm not on Apple about innovation in saying :"the ship has turned", I was trying to let you and other JWsounders understand the reasons for the consternation the new FCP has caused in the post world. Telling me/them that this is business as usual w/ Apple etc isn't very comforting or helpful, any more than us being told that our wireless would be run over by DTV and WSVDs is progress and business as usual helps us w/ wireless decisions. Innovation without making things unnecessarily tough for your core users IS possible, and that's what Apple should have done here, or at least explained themselves better. I'm on the set today using 2 Apple laptops in every shot, I go back with Apple computers at least as far as you do, and have been very involved with the rollouts of a great many of their products from way before the Mac was even invented, so I do have a certain close perspective on these matters.

phil p

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I thought the backlash against FCPX was overblown ... until I used FCPX for 30 minutes.

In my opinion it's Sony Vegas meets SoundTrack Pro - unfortunately what it shares with STP is instability - it crashed at least half a dozen times in that half hour whilst I was mucking around with video generators and titles (no actual footage to edit).

I quite like the direction (I was always a sucker for Vegas back when it was maintained by Sonic Foundry) but for professional use a program needs to be rock solid and dependable. I can't cut FCPX any slack, it aint a professional tool - and it really disappoints me to say that.

Give it six months to a year and maybe those bugs will be squashed. I certainly hope so.

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Innovation without making things unnecessarily tough for your core users IS possible, and that's what Apple should have done here, or at least explained themselves better. I'm on the set today using 2 Apple laptops in every shot, I go back with Apple computers at least as far as you do, and have been very involved with the rollouts of a great many of their products from way before the Mac was even invented, so I do have a certain close perspective on these matters.

phil p

I agree with you Philip completely and I value your long experience with Apple, a relationship that few of us have had except as consumers. Please take no personal affront with my comments about Apple. I am as stunned as everyone else and I don't even need to use FCP in my work. I do know that I am going to have to talk to Laurence Abrams who is head of Education at the sound Local to see what is going to happen with the FinalCut Pro classes that have been set up.

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I agree with you Philip completely and I value your long experience with Apple, a relationship that few of us have had except as consumers. Please take no personal affront with my comments about Apple. I am as stunned as everyone else and I don't even need to use FCP in my work. I do know that I am going to have to talk to Laurence Abrams who is head of Education at the sound Local to see what is going to happen with the FinalCut Pro classes that have been set up.

No offense taken. I'm on the proapps developer list as well, and I was glad to see that the initial shock seems to have worn off and they've gotten back to work. Maybe these folks will come up w/ plugs for FCPx that will get it back up to speed for pro work. Soon I hope--none of my clients relish returning to Avid if they had Avid gear in the bad old days.

phil p

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They will just put that development money into new Tablets or iPhones where they can sell new ones to the faithful followers every year. Not to mention the steady flow of cash from subscription based iCloud or iTunes type software to run on those.

They may even drop the iMac and Mac Mini as well and move everything to the iOS platforms including a new TV line with a MS Kinect type of gesture based interface.

Big statements about past history and future trends that are not backed up by current information. Sure, Apple is putting a whole lot of work into iOS, iPhones, iPads, and so forth, and all of these devices have become a very significant revenue and profit for Apple. The sales of all these devices in the respective categories have been incredible considering the competition from so many other major players, and the sales numbers cannot be explained by blind followers of the faith --- ridiculous. Sales of Apple's other products, like Macintosh computers, were up over 28% when the general market for computers NOT running the Mac OS was down -1% last year.

What Apple has done (and even their name change from Apple Computer to Apple, Inc. reflects this) is leverage their expertise and success with Operating Systems, Software and Hardware, into so many other areas of our lives, expanding into markets that few other tech companies could ever even hope to be a major player. Who would have predicted that a computer company could become the No. 1 retail distributor for music worldwide?

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I am going to have to talk to Laurence Abrams who is head of Education at the sound Local to see what is going to happen with the FinalCut Pro classes that have been set up.

Jeff, the FCP training that we have coming up in July is still going to be based on version 7 because it is the version that the instructor has prepared to teach but more importantly, it is the version that the computer lab we use for the training has currently installed on their workstations... and it takes time to conduct upgrades and debug all the systems and so it would be unwise to do that right before the class begins.

Before arranging for any future FCP training for Local 695, I think we'll need to ask our Video Assist engineers if version X meets their needs.

Having said all that, there are still some openings for Local 695 members who want to attend this FREE FCP7 class (3 Saturdays in June.)

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" Who would have predicted that a computer company could become the No. 1 retail distributor for music worldwide? "

It would seem that Apple Compurers didn't suspect, either, when they signed the licensing agreement with the Beatles "Apple Corp" clearly agreeing to not be in the music business in any way...

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