Filming on both HD and Film at the same time....what frame rate???

[Phil Palmer]

We've got a new wrench thrown in the equation here on my current show.  It seems that there has been the desire to move more swiftly and not be so tethered to a DIT station and tent for some upcoming situations.  The HD and DIT combo has become the reason why we are not able to do some things that we used to be able to do with a simple (not really) film camera set up.  The DP will be bringing in film cameras for certain things, not really having a plan, but will use them whenever he feels necessary.  I actually think the problem is created a bit by the reluctant camera, grip, and electric department...but I'm just the sound mixer.    Now my problem...

I run a straight 48k/29.97NDF set up when filming in HD.  No problems, as there is no pull down, ever.  I normally run 48k/30NDF when using film cameras (24fps).  No problems, as the pull down happens in Telecine, we're used to that.  What happens when we shoot both HD and film, at the same time??  One camera is a 23.976 and the other is at 24.  Camera department doesn't care, it's all voodoo to them.  I see it coming, and probably will experience it on Monday.

I have to pick one format as my baseline and my master, picking the HD as it is our main format up till now.  My plans are to run everything at 29.97NDF and have telecine deal with the film and do the math for the code during the session.  The pull down will happen with the film, and the codes will be off.  The problems will definately arise in the auto conform.  It's a definate "pay me later" situation.  Just thought I'd ask the brain trust.

Thanks...

PWP

[carbonhobbit]

      Just slow down the film camera to 23.976 or 23.97 since it's the "new" problem in the work flow. Lease amount of work all around and just burns up a little more film. Can still sync up at the lab and also edit can sync too. Could also pass the sync at the lab and have edit do it all, but edit is probable more costly than the lab. If the film camera can't or won't slow down, then you could slow the files down in BWF widet pro and then edit would end up doing the sync.

      Just have to pick what's best for everybody. I've done it both ways since the company I work for never sends audio out with the film and is married after it gets back to post.

       Scott.....

[cmgoodin]

I agree with scott.

Have them run the Film camera at 23.976.    If the camera dosen't do that native speed  they can get a Cinematography Electronics Precision speed control box that will run most cameras at a precise off speed rate that can be dialed in.

http://www.cinematographyelectronics.com/index_gallery.html

Make sure telecine knows the speed is 23.976 so they don't pull it down.

in MOS takes.  On sound takes the 29.97 frame rate of your sound should take care of this but (make a big lable that shows the 29.97fps ND rate)

-----Courtney

[RPSharman]

Phil,

Let me know what you do and how it turns out.  I imagine this will happen more and more.  The only time they have brought a film camera on any HD shoots I have done was to shoot off speed.  And on a film shoot when they show up with a video camera for a "special" shot, I switch TC to 29.97 on slates and recorder, and make BIG notes on my report and scripty's.  It takes a minute to switch and switch back, but we usually aren't the ones they're waiting for.  Or if you're Lee Orloff on "Collateral", I expect you either have the time, or you're given it.

Robert

[curleysound]

Great ideas all around. Would there be anything wrong with doing 30ND for the DAT/HD recorder, and just sending an audio feed to the camera? That way, you'd have guaranteed film sound, and correct HD sound on the production tape. Or run 2 recorders, charge the production for more gear, and everyone's happy!

Tom