soundtrane Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 do our own poll - the JW group members alone can do a poll - i am sure in a month's time just a hundred members who live in the US can do a poll that is clearly independent and will cover at least as much or maybe many times more individual opinions than any of the mentioned polls can boast of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Interesting. Can you point us to some examples of that? Marketing 101. All costs, fees, taxes, overhead, supplies, materials, utilities, insurance, duties, etc are built into the cost of the product or service. Here's a random article from the internet. http://www.accountingcoach.com/online-accounting-course/36Xpg01.html "For a product to be profitable, its selling price must be greater than the sum of the product cost (direct material, direct labor, and manufacturing overhead) plus the nonmanufacturing costs and expenses." This is day one stuff from High School economics class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Feeley Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Marketing 101. All costs, fees, taxes, overhead, supplies, materials, utilities, insurance, duties, etc are built into the cost of the product or service. Here's a random article from the internet. http://www.accountin...se/36Xpg01.html "For a product to be profitable, its selling price must be greater than the sum of the product cost (direct material, direct labor, and manufacturing overhead) plus the nonmanufacturing costs and expenses." This is day one stuff from High School economics class. You said, "A 30% tax increase on an industry like the airlines will result in a 30%+ increase in the price of a ticket." I don't think that factors in the influence of price elasticity of demand and supply on tax incidence. Also, are you assuming that taxes make up the entire cost of a ticket? Isn't it just one part of overhead costs? At any rate, that's all theory. Can you provide some real-world examples of the cost of goods going up in direct proportion to a rise corporate tax rate? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 20, 2011 Report Share Posted July 20, 2011 Someone remind me, how did the tax cut give away to the wealthiest people n corporations do in job creation? How well does trickle down work in the real world? As I recall the last time we raised taxes we had a booming economy and we created a surplus. Thinking back, maybe we should of invested that in our infrastructure or research. Education is worth our hard earned money. Maybe a trip to the Moon or Mars would of been cool. Americans have sacrificed much for many and will again. Now if the rich n corporations would get on board with putting some back into the country who knows what we could do. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 You said, "A 30% tax increase on an industry like the airlines will result in a 30%+ increase in the price of a ticket." I don't think that factors in the influence of price elasticity of demand and supply on tax incidence. Also, are you assuming that taxes make up the entire cost of a ticket? Isn't it just one part of overhead costs? At any rate, that's all theory. Can you provide some real-world examples of the cost of goods going up in direct proportion to a rise corporate tax rate? As you said, It's 'one part of the overhead cost.' If a corporation is forced to pay an additional 30% in taxes (as an example). They are also buying part from other corporations that have to increase the tax portion of their overhead by 30%. Who buy raw material from other companies that have to increase the tax portion of their overhead 30%. So the end result is much more than a 30% increase. A ticket from NY to ATL (or wherever) that normally costs $200 will now cost at least $260. Yes, there are many factors, including competition, that will skew this. The competitor will see the $260 and come in at $230. Essentially eating half the new taxes, but still making a profit. On the other hand if the taxes and other overheads are lowered there is no real incentive to lower the cost of goods except competition. That's one reason the free market is far superior to any other system. If Delta airlines makes $1,000,000,000 profit and the Feds decide they want another 30% of that, how can you not expect the cost of goods not to go up to cover that new overhead. Yes the example is simplistic but it conveys the truth. More overhead results in higher cost of goods. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Respectfully, you do not have to go far back. While I disagree with the extent of the Bush tax cuts, when they went into place after 911 and after the economy collapsed after 911, the economy boomed back and millions of jobs returned. A major crash occured in 2008. Part of it was because oil prices skyrocketed AND the mortgage industry was corrupt. People were getting into homes they could not afford - as appraisals were not honest, and standards were lowered. Paper was sold from one financial institution to another, until the game of musical chairs was over, and the value of the paper was virtually worthless. When major financial institutions went under, that freaked out a lot of investors and business people, and many began hanging onto their whatever they could. Additionally, corporate taxes and regulations are much more burdensome in the U.S. than some other countries. Are we willing to pay the higher prices for manufacturing in the U.S. Apparently not. And if India and China are moving up with near 3 billion people between them, doesn't it also make sense that something has to give somewhere else? Did the U.S. when it was only 200 million people some years ago, really have a vested right to have the greatest economy in the world when the world had 5 billion or so people in it? Is it really bad that there are more middle class people in India and China? Or did we like it better when more people were starving there? Who is to blame? Republicans? Democrats? How about all of us in the U.S. We live in a free country. Almost all of us got the mail every day with numerous great credit offerings. All the signs were there. As a whole, we refuse to sacrifice for our grandchildren. We are not the greatest generation. Even are wars are fought by proxy fighters. Bring back the draft, and see how fast the demonstrations start up and we are out of Iraq, Afghanistan, etc. Two KIDS died in my State in the last several weeks in Afghanistan. What did they die for? We are going to leave, and the Taliban will take it over. I feel sorry for the people over there and their families. Sorry for rambling. But hopefully this shows how complex, and not simple, the whole problem is. Best, AB Someone remind me, how did the tax cut give away to the wealthiest people n corporations do in job creation? . . .CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 It is beyond complex AB, but so is life. Personally I would like to smack everyone in this world of ours with a pie in the face. Very liberating to slip on the banana or get a pie in the face. Even better to have it happen in front of the crowd to reinforce the connectivity of the Human Race. Even better to throw the pie to the deserving. Hate sows hate, just as respect sows community. But a pie in the face? Priceless.... To get back to the OP subject of Murdock and/or Media bias. I think all of us need to express our POV's w the ballot as well as the purse. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Many years ago, a former girlfriend owned a parakeet named Corky who loved to perch atop her head. She formulated the theory that the problems of mankind would disappear if, at summit meetings, each of the world's leaders would be required to have a parakeet perched on their head. The idea being that although each person wouldn't be able to see themself to observe how silly they looked, they had only to glance around the room and see how each of the other leaders looked with a parakeet perched atop their head, realizing, of course, that you also had a budgie appendage. I still think it's a great idea. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Some time over the winter, I included in my daily news reading subscriptions to three polls that included links to the questions. The bias was finely tuned, but there. My suspicions were confirmed. But that information got me nowhere really, except not to listen to polls. The fact that all the mainstream news outlets are biased, causing a lot of thinking people not to believe anything at first blush, is as dangerous as those who believe it all without question. Cynicism ultimately leads to stasis. Inaction. Belief leads to the same thing. That all of the MSM news outlets are biased is no excuse. My specific problems with Fox are that: They continually repeat (and I once counted 30 times in an hour just spoken aloud, not counting the visuals) the words "fair and balanced" when it's clearly not true. Problem is, the human brain believes that which it hears repeated. My dad's not stupid, and he believes in his heart of hearts that Fox presents both sides fairly. Problem is, Fox has demonized the best thinkers on the other side to the point where no Fox fan will read or listen to them. Fox's infotainment model depends on riling people up. People tune in to get a rush, and they reliably do. All well and good except for the fact that the rush those people become addicted to is an intensely divisive, intolerant rush. Used to be able to debate with my dad. Not any more. There's no room for debate with people who are so emotionally invested in their version of the truth. That Fox is in bed with our government, and during their pillow talk, nothing Fox wants is out of reach, including the dismantling of competition among television, radio and newspapers. Locally, and world wide, media slowly but surely congeals into Murdoch's hands. I listen once a week (or two weeks) to conservative radio or television. It's the most brilliant propaganda ever. Both sides are pretty good at it, but Murdoch's publications are the experts. Seems the other side has turned up the emotional volume in order to compete. Olberman comes to mind. Maddow gets pretty excited too. Now the left audience is as emotionally entrenched as the right. Brilliant. Between the cynics and the rest, there's no chance anything will get done. Solution? Get our heads out of the red herrings of divisive details, and decide that for whatever reason (details don't matter at this point) the government is broken and stand together to demand change. It's called fascism and it's not what I want to leave to the future. Red/Blue? Herring. They're all feeding from the same bucket. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AB Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 Maybe we all need a wakeup call with a pie in the face as mentioned above. I may be wrong in my prior post about it all being complex. Maybe there is a link to all these problems that is simple. Almost everyone in the U.S. wants something for nothing. We want the easy, lazy way out. That is why we do not have a draft where everyone has to sacrifice. That is why we have a bad economy. (We wanted mortgages we could not afford). That is why we have huge debt (We want a military and social benefits we cannot afford). We want news delivered to us that is entertaining as opposed to informative - so we consume toxic news from all sorts, while letting decent news outlets go down the tubes. Why else would tabloids survive, if there was not a market for junk news. It is the consumer that decides which news organizations survives or die. But ultimately it comes down to a public that let's this all happen because it feeds immediate needs for so-called pleasures. Junk Food, Junk News, Junk Budget, etc. (My own personal issue is with DJs. We do not even appreciate the time and effort live musicians put into their craft. Many restaurants and night time establishments are no longer designed to be able to "listen" to live musicians, but rather support DJs or dead music.) Go to a gas station that sells food. The gas is toxic. What percentage of food in the gas station is actually healthy for anyone? Maybe 2 percent. (the nuts? - and even many of them are in cottonseed oil.) A free society requires individual responsibility to avoid toxic results. But maybe we have been exposed to so many commercials about what we need to be happy, that we have lost our own way as individuals to make healthy decisions. We look at Eqypt and wonder how could individuals not realize that they have power for so long. But when do we turn that magnifying glass onto ourselves. It seems like we have given up on our individual power years ago. Of course, this is all a generalization. Somehow, I think all these problems, including the news issue of the original post, are all interrelated. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mirror Posted July 21, 2011 Report Share Posted July 21, 2011 The reset button is going to be painful for all. Sooner is better then later I would think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miker71 Posted July 22, 2011 Report Share Posted July 22, 2011 With Sean Hoare dead (the original whistleblower) we will always be missing his view of the truth. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14199171 The police who investigated Sean's death say they found nothing suspicious. "Dog and pony show" comes to mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 23, 2011 Report Share Posted July 23, 2011 " The city of Galveston does not contribute to Social Security. " More importantly, and more tellingly, the US Government does not contribute to Social Security... That's right, US Government employees have their own, and like Galveston's -a superior- retirement program. Congress and the Presidents might have done better for all of us if they were also participating in Social Security. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 This just in: " Jonathan May-Bowles, also known as Jonnie Marbles - the foam pie-thrower who was slam-dunked by Wendi Deng Murdoch at the House of Commons two weeks ago - was convicted Friday of assault and causing harassment, alarm and distress for his attack on News Corp CEO Rupert Murdoch. He will be sentenced August 2. " http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/murdoch-pie-man-convicted-humble-216981?utm_source=SilverpopMailing&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign==?utf-8?B?TWFpbGluZyBNdXJkb2NoIFBpZSBNYW4gQ29udmljdGVkOiAnTW9zdCBIdW1ibGUgRGF5IG9mIE15IExpZmUnKDA3LzI5LzIwMTEgMTA6MTM6MjcgQU0p?=&utm_content= Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Gilbert Posted July 29, 2011 Report Share Posted July 29, 2011 Just in? Did I not point that it was an aspiring comedian out a while ago? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted July 30, 2011 Report Share Posted July 30, 2011 " Just in? " " was convicted Friday of assault and... " Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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