Time Code $$$ ???

[480sound]

We all have been dealing with Time Code since it was introduced.

Why is it still so expensive and hard to make work.

Shouldn’t there be a single mass manufactured chip that has all Time Code

functions built into it, that can be used in all devices?

I had a Zaxcom Fusion that when a IFB 100 transmitter was plugged into the

TC on the Fusion, it froze the whole machine. When the Red camera

first came along it took several years to get the TC bugs worked out.

(There still may be ongoing problems).

On the show I’m on now, when the DIT’s Time Code Generator gets hot we loose code.

He’s on the latest, greatest Codec system.

I know that every one of you has a Time Code story, and yes I realize that most

most of the time it works. I understand the functionality of most of my gear

and can trouble shoot problems. Not so much with Time Code.

What is the Alchemy; the hardware devices, the software, the programmers, is it really that hard?

Just wondering.

[studiomprd]

" What is the Alchemy; "

you are right, it is not simple, easy, or (when done right) cheap.

Actually most us us have not " dealing with Time Code since it was introduced. " as it was originally implemented in the 70's for video editing. The SMPTE and EBU committees which designed the rather complex and intricate industry standard time code did a rather good job, and amazingly their results have proved useful and adaptable through a lot of technology advances that could not have been foreseen back then. Currently a new TC system is "in development". Courtney Goodin* is our resident SMPTE/EBI TC guru, and involved with the new development

As to all the specifics, it takes a lot of reading and practical learning to come even close to understanding it real well, and there are numerous resources (start perhaps, with Wikipedia, and later try to find Jim Tannenbaum's* excellent book "Time Code in the Reel World", a classic oldie, or the later publications by Wolf Seeburg* for information particularly relevant to our uses. Back in the 80's, when we started using SMPTE/EBU TC in movie production, leaders like Manfred Klemme, Ivan Kugarak, Mike Denecke, and Harvey Wernke guided us into this quagmire which was, at that point, despite its complexity, rather deceptively simple to put into use. The biggest issues tended to be around the "pull-up's" and "pull-down's" needed to deal with the compatible color television system that we were stuck with from the NTSC. As we got into digital recording, with DAT, and later non-linear file systems, it all got exponentially more complex, At the same time, specialty (midi-TC) and proprietary TC systems clouded the issue even more.

* jwsound member

Edited August 1, 2011 by studiomprd

[johngooch]

" What is the Alchemy; "

you are right, it is not simple, easy, or (when done right) cheap.

Actually most us us have not " dealing with Time Code since it was introduced. " as it was originally implemented in the 70's for video editing. The SMPTE and EBU committees which designed the rather complex and intricate industry standard time code did a rather good job, and amazingly their results have proved useful and adaptable through a lot of technology advances that could not have been foreseen back then. Currently a new TC system is "in development".

As to all the specifics, it takes a lot of reading and practical learning to come even close to understanding it real well, and there are numerous resources (start perhaps, with Wikipedia, and later try to find Jim Tannenbaum's excellent book "Time Code in the Reel World", a classic oldie, or the later publications by Wolf Seeburg for information particularly relevant to our uses. Back in the 80's, when we started using SMPTE/EBU TC in movie production, leaders like Manfred Klemme, Ivan Kugarak, and Mike Denecke guided us into this quagmire which was, at that point, despite its complexity, rather deceptively simple to put into use. The biggest issues tended to be around the "pull-up's" and "pull-down's" needed to deal with the compatible color television system that we were stuck with from the NTSC. As we got into digital recording, with DAT, and later non-linear file systems, it all got exponentially more complex, At the same time, specialty (midi-TC) and proprietary TC systems clouded the issue even more.

Jim's "Time Code in the Reel world" was the bible. Well written and a good resource. I think i still have mine. Alot has changed since then but the basics are in many ways the same.

His articles from the coffey publications are really good reads as well.

Thanks Jim! And welcome to JWsound!

[WhyOne]

Welcome 480! Senator- exquisite answer... I would have to add Harvey Wernke to the list of "leaders", his retro-fit unit brought over a hundred IV-Ss into the timecode era....

Jay Patterson, CAS

[Marc Wielage]

We all have been dealing with Time Code since it was introduced. Why is it still so expensive and hard to make work.

Because there's a lot going on there. I usually tell my post clients: "if your production is a train, timecode is like the railroad tracks on which it travels. If the timecode is bad... the train falls off the tracks. We can fix it in post (sometimes), but it'll cost many times more than it would if you get it right the first time."

I've been in video post long enough that I remember the terrible days BTC (before timecode), when all we had was Editec on Ampex VTRs -- putting a little "beep" tone in to trigger an edit, one at a time. All done with human fingers. Being given timecode for the first time was like the difference between ripping film and taping it together with masking tape, to using a splicer with a precision razor blade. Or almost as great as the transition between recording on 78RPM lacquer records and magnetic tape. Everything changed when that happened.

I think the reality is that the market for timecode boxes is very small, so there's no way to mass-produce a tiny battery-operated chip that outputs accurate timecode that's fully referenced and reliable, especially in temperature-changing conditions. Sony, Panasonic, JVC, etc. don't have any interest in making boxes like this, so it's up to companies like Ambient, Denecke, Zaxcom, Sound Devices, Aaton, and so on to make products like this.

I think the problems you describe are not timecode problems per se; they're hardware problems with companies that had issues dealing with things like proper timecode level. Some devices expect to see 1V; some can handle more, while others blow up if you exceed a certain threshold.

It doesn't help that certain camera companies place timecode accuracy at a low importance on the scale.

--Marc W.

[mikewest]

Check with post

jam and/or use a t/c slate and get on with mixing sound!

mike