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Comtek Questions - 72 vs 216 - Old vs New


Tyler Neisinger

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Hi Everyone,

I am a sound mixer in LA that is relatively new to the game. I've mostly been doing bag work for low to moderate budget projects, and am looking at adding some Comteks to my package, but I could use a little guidance on what systems to invest in.

Here are my questions:

- What is the difference between the 72 transmitter/receivers and the 216 models?

- Are there any legal FCC related concerns?

- What is Option 7?

- What models would you advise that I purchase for a first set? Used or new?

Here are some details about my needs:

I do a wide variety of work: Documentary, narrative, and commercials. Primarily, I need one or two IFBs for the director/scripty/producers to listen to on set. It would also be great to use them to send timecode to or from camera(s) on certain jobs, or to send a feed of my audio mix to camera. Obviously, I don't need the unit to do all these things at the same time (wouldn't that be great) but different jobs have different needs. Should/can I use a comtek in all those ways?

Here is my kit:

SD 302 Mixer

Tascam HD-P2 Recorder

Rode NTG-3 Shotgun Mic

Audix SCX-1 Hypercardioid Mic

2 Sony UWP-V1 wireless packages

2 Countryman EMWs

(I'd love to have a SD 552 and a 744T, but this is my starter package for now.)

I tried to find the answers to these questions via google search before pestering you all, but there isn't a lot of helpful information about Comteks available on the web as far as I could find. I would very much appreciate any information that you all could throw my way. Thank you all for the help!

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Hey Tyler,

Welcome to the group!

- What is the difference between the 72 transmitter/receivers and the 216 models?

The carriers (72 MHz and 216 MHz) and the deviation wich relates to fidelity. The 216s sound better.

- Are there any legal FCC related concerns?

Oh Yeah! There are only two channels in the 72 MHz that are still legal - most of that band has been given to Public Safety. Anyone still using them is subject to a fine (though I know of no one who has been fined.) Unfortunately, the 216 MHz stuff is a little gray - one can obtain a license for the band that goes up to 216.000, but ComTek's units are just above 216.000 which falls into unlicensed assisted listening systems. Theoretically, we should not be using them for production.

- What is Option 7?

For the smaller, portable transmitters, Option 7 replaces the mini (1/8") antenna connector with a much more robust BNC connector. If you get one of these units, get the Option 7.

- What models would you advise that I purchase for a first set? Used or new?

Tough question... But I think you probably should go with the little 216 transmitter and a couple of 216 receivers. Gives you room to grow - you could buy a 216 base station down the line for cart work, and 216 receivers are always floating around on the market.

Zaxcom has some new units that are less expensive than the Lectro IFBs, might be worth checking out. Personally, I have a five digit committment to the Lectros and love them...

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Hi Tyler, and welcome to the forum...

" I tried to find the answers to these questions via google search before pestering you all, "

sadly, though, you did not try very hard... (I suspect that is how you found us here!)

A lot of the information is readily available searching this group, or by contacting Comtek (email or telephone), or visiting their site, or by checking with our "usual suspects" (professional production sound dealers). Where did you buy your gear? There are lots of discussions on this group about Comtek's, their uses, and alternatives.

I'm really think it is a good idea for folks who sign up to do some "reading the mail" on a group before jumping in...

Edited by studiomprd
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While it is fine to ask a question and wait for a response (you will get some), Senator is right in that you can get the information a lot quicker and perhaps more comprehensively by searching within the forum first.

But in summary, I believe the Comtek systems to be the best value in terms of cost and performance. The Zaxcom units are without a doubt cutting edge, but range is an issue without a "larger" set-up, and they are a LOT more expensive. Lectro systems have expensive receivers, are of higher fidelity than Comtek, but when I was a utility guy I found the RF hits quite annoying and painful.

One thing I can assure you is that many academy award-winning directors, and other brilliant directors, have somehow managed to direct their amazing films listening to PR72 Comtek receivers. Our clients are typically not, nor should they be, listening to the nuances of the mix we are sending them. They should be hearing the words and the performance comfortably and with as little interference as possible (preferably none).

I am "upgrading" to 216s for my clients (my boom ops use them already and prefer them to any of the other choices), but it's only because about 10% of the time on location, I have encountered intermittent interference on the 72 band, which I find unacceptable considering I am being fairly compensated for my gear. But for starting out, the M72 Option 7 with a handful of "newer" series PR72b receivers would be a sensible, reliable and economic way to go.

Robert

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RPS! Hey, just imdb'd you to notice you did the video coordination on Citizen Ruth back in '95! I remember Kenny coming out to Omaha for a day of 24 frame and staying a week! Hilarious! And slightly more on topic, I used the Comtek 72s on that film and every project till I switched to the Lectros. The reason I advised Tyler to go with the 216s is a bit political - as a licensed user, I just can't recommend units that we are not supposed to be using. I agree with the rest of your logic, though.

Jay

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RPS! Hey, just imdb'd you to notice you did the video coordination on Citizen Ruth back in '95! I remember Kenny coming out to Omaha for a day of 24 frame and staying a week! Hilarious! And slightly more on topic, I used the Comtek 72s on that film and every project till I switched to the Lectros. The reason I advised Tyler to go with the 216s is a bit political - as a licensed user, I just can't recommend units that we are not supposed to be using. I agree with the rest of your logic, though.

Jay

I, too, spent a little time in Omaha on that film operating. They spent quite a lot on shipping gear and operators back and forth. Crazy for a relatively low budget film. Haven't seen Kenny in almost that long. I stopped working for that company shortly after joining the union some time in '95.

But yes, on topic, it is wise to use legal items. I was completely unaware, until now, that the 72s are not legal. But my guess is that the FCC will bust our cameras' 1W Modulus on set before busting my Comteks. Or at least I hope!

Robert

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I still have a bag of PR72s. They work fine, are very reliable, are serviceable, and I've never been busted with them even in gov't installations etc etc. The problem with them is that since they are given out to clients there will be an inevitable attrition happening to your package, and you can't just pick up the phone and order new PR72s or their crystals--you have to take your chances on Ebay etc.. I lost a few this year--my latest ones had to come to me (in CA) all the way from Australia--they were the only ones I could find when I needed them. So in addition to the better sonics on the 216s, there is this practical matter of keeping your package numbers up. For a one-man-band like me doing smaller projects where maybe you don't need a whole case-full all the time--they are probably a good cost effective choice, still. If you are working episodics or movies or reality etc and need a lot of them all the time under heavy conditions--probably better to go with the current models, I'd say.

phil p

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The older 72 ones work fine 99% of the time. The crystal thing makes them harder to tune if you ever run in to an issue.

You can definitely use them and not get scoffed at for having old gear (if you were wondering). I bought a set of them, and even after getting some 216s, I keep the 72s around.

You can get a set of 72s for a lot less than a set of 216s.... so if you have a fixed budget for Comteks, you will get a lot more RXs if you go with the 72s.

I don't have a ton of 216s, so if a job surprises me with a request for a lot of Comteks, I just hook up the second transmitter and run both systems. I try to make sure the director, scriptie etc get the 216s... a lot of the other people stop listening pretty quickly and just want to wear the kit all day. Last week I did a commercial at a family home and realized the extra Comteks production requested were being worn by the homeowner's grandchildren (who were probably 6 years old). They were fine with 72s. :)

side tip... if your 72s have worn out pouches... try a store like 5Below (sort of a $1 store, but $5 and under). They sell phone pouches that will fit the Comtek 72s and they cost $3-$5 and come in all sorts of configurations (plenty of all black fake leather/canvas options with robust belt clips).

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  • 1 year later...

I just found this thread while searching the forum and wanted to know your thoughts about the M72s...

I been wanting to get my first pair of Comteks and 72s seem more appropriate for my current budget.

- As of 2012 (almost 2013), are the 72s still running properly?

- How is their range?...

I'm thinking of using them for occasional IFBs for director and sometimes for camera feed for scratch track, since i cannot offer timecode yet....

Thanks!

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  • 5 years later...

Can someone please elaborate on the details of how most of the 72-76MHz spectrum has become illegal to use for IFB "assistive listening"?

 

I am trying to consolidate a pros cons list for IFB solutions and searched for 72 vs 216. I got the impression from this thread that the 72Mhz gear is harder to find, but see that brand new units are still available today.

 

I don't think I want buy any 72MHz gear but I would like to understand the circumstances to have a sense of perspective.

 

I gather that most of the 72-76MHz band has been re-purposed for public safety but I can not find any info about assistive listening in the band having become illegal.

 

I found a bunch of info about RC Modelers arguing whether or not it is a legal unlicensed band, but the only 72MHz assistive listening info I found still describes its use.

 

Any info appreciated!

 

Thank you.

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On the topic of Comtek Option P7 vs Comtek jack version, has anyone got opinions on performance of either? Is the jack version considerably less durable than the BNC, so much so that it affects performance? There’s an M-216 up for sale but it is not Option P7 and I’m wondering whether it will cut it as a bag IFB transmitter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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I have both.  For years I've used the non-opt-7 M216 transmitters in both a bag and on a cart with floppy antennas.  They work fine.  I've also used slender stick antennas for the one on the cart when I needed a tad better coverage.

 

I've recently added an opt-7 transmitter on the cart so I can try out a Mini-Mite antenna.

 

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4 hours ago, Glen Deakin said:

I cut my antenna on my mom's op7 to half the length. No noticeable reduction in distance with a more manageable antenna. 

 

Some years back I conducted a series of range tests of antennas for the 695 Quarterly (now Production Sound & Video). Covering all the ground of transmitting and receiving antennas required several articles starting in the Spring of 2010 and ending with tests of the Mini-Mite and Miracle Whip antennas in the Summer of 2011.

 

In the very first article, Spring 2010, I reviewed how the tests would be conducted, measurements made and results interpreted. We made some initial tests to establish base-line expectations. At that time, I made some tests of the performance of a Lectrosonics SMQV at different power settings and with different antenna configurations. We made range tests with whip antennas with the receivers at different heights and with SNA600 antennas at varying heights and diversity spacing. Just to make things interesting, I also checked performance with antennas cut to half the recommended length mounted on the transmitter. The half-length antennas worked fine but they consistently had a penalty loss of about 1/3 range. That is, in one test a range of 562-feet at 50mW output dropped to 358-feet with the half-length whip. (The numbers are a precise measurement of measured range in that test but, as the copy explains, range experienced in a series of tests is a bit more spongy.)

 

The Quarterly magazine can be found online at:

http://www.local695.com/Quarterly/

 

The particular issue with the half-length test is available here:

http://www.local695.com/Quarterly/695QuarterlyPDFs/695-Quarterly-2010-Spring.pdf

 

(Those early issues, regrettably, are archived only as complete issues rather than as individual articles. But all the material is available.)

 

David

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