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Opinions on MKH-816 (and other big shotguns)


Simon Paine

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" how I have to turn the inteference grid when I point this mic. "

hmmm...

I just answered this same question: ???

just point the non-connector end at the desired sound source, and/or the connector end toward the non-desired sound source...

pretty basic, actually. ::)

This is bad information. I honestly thought SM knew more about microphones than this. Perhaps in his haste to issue a glib answer he neglected to consider a correct one.

Along with a front pickup lobe, the 816 (and most shotgun microphones) has a lesser rear lobe. Therefore, if you're trying to minimize pickup of a non-desired sound source, you would aim the microphone's less sensitive axis (of about 120 degrees) toward that source, rather than the "connector end" as SM stated.

Microphone basics 101.

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" I always make sure the solid side is facing the wind as it seems to help with it's wind noise rejection. "

excellent point...

" This is bad information. "

Ouch, you got me!.... I'm going to my corner for the rest of the morning....

my only excuse, good old Alabi Ike, is I guess that I felt that a person asking such a questilon needed a fairly simple answer, rather than a complex, complete discussion, complete with specific polar patterns, and a protractor.

<sniffle> :'(

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" This is bad information. "

Ouch, you got me!.... I'm going to my corner for the rest of the morning....

my only excuse, good old Alabi Ike, is I guess that I felt that a person asking such a questilon needed a fairly simple answer, rather than a complex, complete discussion, complete with specific polar patterns, and a protractor.

<sniffle> :'(

You're a big boy; you can handle it.

Perhaps a little less pursuit of trying to be glib and more emphasis on helping other participants would serve to minimize such oversights and result in big dividends. (I believe you're looking for large dividends if the topic, "$76 BILLION in cash. Still no dividend?" is any indication.)

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the 816 gets very little use but it's saved the day a few times on water shoots where I've had to get dialogue from swimmers from the beach or a boat.

And also good for bears that you don't want to get closer to.

And my favourite use was a PSA spot where a local 6 1/2 foot hockey goalie was doing dialogue with a 3 foot little girl in the most un-laveable puffy nylon jacket I had ever seen.

the 816, 3 ft 8 inches above her head, picked her up like she was 6 inches under a 416...

cheers,

Brent Calkin

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  • 3 years later...
On 20 April 2012 at 10:47 AM, sergiofucchi said:

Good morning at all. I am new here. I have bought a 816T and I would to know how I have to turn the inteference grid when I point this mic. The others shotgun mics have two grids, but this has only one,

Thank You. (I'm sorry for my english.... :( )

Dear Sergio!

The positioning of the screen is situational, depending on location, degree of wind, location of reflective surfaces and texture of the audio desired. If you are looking to shield from wind, position the solid side into the direction of the wind. If there is an acoustically reflective surface you do not want to pick up, do the same. If you are looking for the audio reflection, position the side grill so that it will accept the input.

Hope this helps.

Ciao,
Ernst

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Dear Sergio!

The positioning of the screen is situational, depending on location, degree of wind, location of reflective surfaces and texture of the audio desired. If you are looking to shield from wind, position the solid side into the direction of the wind. If there is an acoustically reflective surface you do not want to pick up, do the same. If you are looking for the audio reflection, position the side grill so that it will accept the input.

Hope this helps.

Ciao,

Ernst

It's been four years... I'm sure he will have figured it out by now

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I regularly use an 815T and mkh70. I think they sound great, and are an amazing tool to have in the arsenal. Wireless are often not the right tool for the job, but a regular shotgun might not have the reach needed. I will use a long shotgun in countless situations where lavs just arent the right tool for the job. Like Phil mentioned: noisy locations (think beaches, crowds, etc.), wide shots, bad RF environments, scenarios where wardrobe is not too lav friendly, etc. 

I had a scene last year where two characters had a long conversation while swimming around in a pool. The mkh70 was the perfect tool for the job. Post loved the sound, no ADR was needed. 

Another job with my 815T where people were talking at the beach in a wide shot. The director thought that they were listening to an all lav mix. I told them it was just the boom mic. They were blown away. Again, no ADR needed. I could have put lavs on those characters, but it was also very windy, and it would have been difficult to get anything very clear out of them with a lav. Why over complicate things? Lol

I had a job where two basketball players were having a conversation while shooting hoops. The basketball jerseys, sweat, and physical movement made lavs a nightmare to deal with. But the trusty mkh70 made the entire conversation completely intelligible, as well as picked up the sounds of their actions, which made for a great sounding segment. Everyone was happy with the outcome, and the atheletes were thankful to not have to wear lavs and waist straps!

The only drawback to any of these mics is their size and weight. Yes you have to have a strong boom op that has some skill. My boom ops know that I regularly use these mics, so they have to be up to the challenge. I hear a lot of mixers say that they can't get their boom ops to swing an 816, which boggles my mind because even though it is a challenge, it's part of the job imho. I'm not afraid to swing one, and regularly do, even as an OMB. 

So my point is that I think everyone should have at least one long shotgun, you'd be surprised how often you'll find it to be the right tool for the job instead of a lav!

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14 minutes ago, JonG said:

The only drawback to any of these mics is their size and weight. Yes you have to have a strong boom op that has some skill. My boom ops know that I regularly use these mics, so they have to be up to the challenge. I hear a lot of mixers say that they can't get their boom ops to swing an 816, which boggles my mind because even though it is a challenge, it's part of the job imho. I'm not afraid to swing one, and regularly do, even as an OMB. 

 

I was one of the boom ops on Four Weddings and a Funeral, and in a wedding scene in a church I was up on a tall step ladder covering the dialogue between the vicar and the bride and groom, with an 816 out at full stretch of the pole. It was about a five minute scene and at the end of each take my muscles were screaming, but just about recovered by the time the next take started. You can imagine my delight when after another take the director said "Keep rolling, we'll go again straight away." I don't know how I didn't dip into shot, my arms were so fatigued!

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I agree. There's a little range of scenes/scenarios where a long shotgun lives nicely. If possible, I'll go with my CMITs for what feels to me like a fatter voice and more forgiving blend of the background(and for that reason I once sold the two MKH-70s I owned), but if we can stay on a boom and not go with lavs by going with my 2 816s, I'll do that. For a while, I only owned one (that I bought used), but picked up a second used one a few shows ago. We had scenes on the waterfront in Daredevil that where we went with 816s from above and below to get the lines without going to the wires.

Sometimes the 816s, in my opinion, are good for brute force - just cut the dialogue out of the background. But, I really like those mics for quieter exterior dialogue, especially when the voices have a whispery tone. So I've even used it indoors because of that whispery pickup (similar to a 416 in my opinion). On Jessica Jones, our lead was sitting against a wall inside, and we went with the 816 to get the whispering lines she was saying to herself. Hard wall, hard floor, interior - but if it wasn't for an 816 in that situation, it probably would have been a lav which would have been a shame.

Yes, they are heavy, especially with the zeps, fur and a fully extended pole. I once filled in as boom on a movie a friend was mixing. We had an exterior shot. The mixer was ready to go with the wire but I wanted to get a shot at the line (actor hailing a cab, so he was putting out level to work with). I think my friend had a Neumann long shotgun in the zeppelin, I'm not sure. But the boom was one of those super heavy panamic booms. It was fun to do, but it hurt. And this was nowhere near a 5 minute scene. Just a quick 30 second one with some walking backwards on a long stick. 

Josh

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19 hours ago, Cloud Wang said:

love my 82i a lot but it gets RF from my TX and also random RF interference from crew's walkie talkie. Anyone had theirs sent back to Neumann to fix this ? is there such a fix ? 

I asked Neumann/Sennheiser about this same issue a couple of years ago as I wanted to modify or upgrade my beloved KMR81s and KMR82.  "Can't be done" was the answer.  This is the response I received:

"There are no upgrades or modifications to make the KMR 81 less
susceptible to RF-interference.  The circuit design already greatly
reduces the likelihood of intereference unless there are other
shielding issues, which are nearly always resolved by properly
terminating the XLR-connectors (connecting the shield to pin 1 and
the ground lug).  We recommend using cables that have Neutrik
shielded connectors.

Thank you for contacting Neumann USA."

 

Adriano Bravo

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On April 5, 2016 at 8:57 AM, absound said:

I asked Neumann/Sennheiser about this same issue a couple of years ago as I wanted to modify or upgrade my beloved KMR81s and KMR82.  "Can't be done" was the answer.  This is the response I received:

"There are no upgrades or modifications to make the KMR 81 less
susceptible to RF-interference.  The circuit design already greatly
reduces the likelihood of intereference unless there are other
shielding issues, which are nearly always resolved by properly
terminating the XLR-connectors (connecting the shield to pin 1 and
the ground lug).  We recommend using cables that have Neutrik
shielded connectors.

Thank you for contacting Neumann USA."

 

Adriano Bravo

thank you very much for sharing this info Adriano 

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I love my 816. It's a fantastic tool to have in the kit. It saves me a lot of headache on beach scenes, walk and talks, and noisy exteriors. Helpful for wide shots I n bathrooms too, believe it or not. 

That being said, Don't believe the hype. It doesn't fix everything. It can't fix bad acting. It can sound better than a lot of mics even in bad acoustic spaces. It can sound like poop on certain voices. It's not a one-size-fits-all kinda thing. 

Something that is kind of a bummer- as mics/suspensions have gotten lighter and lighter, boom pole manufacturers have responded, and I find that not every pole can handle a fully loaded 816/Zeppelin. Makes it harder to operate/make the hard cues the tool requires. The only thing stiff enough for that mic, IMHO, is the Ambient, preferably with the extension. 

 

A

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