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Richard Thomas

Lectrosonics compatibility mode

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I'm looking into whether anyone has any experience using the compatibility mode on Lectrosonics receivers (SRa /411) with transmitters from other manufacturers, specifically the Sennheiser 3000/5000 series (I've read Mode 3 should be compatible with the HiDyn plus compander)- what's the range like and how do they sound compared using the original receivers?

I've got a couple of Senn transmitters which can be re-tuned reasonably cheaply, although the receivers are more expensive and I'm looking at other options, at least as a stopgap.

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I was working on a reality pilot and we where shooing at someones wedding noticed the videographer had the priest mic'ed with senn. G2 Group B, I was using lectrosonics blk 26, asked the videographer if I could have his frequency didn't know what it was did a quick scan found the frequency. Saved it on my 411 group. Turned off my pilot on the receiver got the priest crystal clear.

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Hi Richard,

The mode 3 emulation works well and has the same sound and high frequency, high level transient shortcomings as the original. This shows up on the key test. Since rattling keys are not used that often for musical effects, it is generally a non problem. However, on the SMv, SMQv and SMb (Euro) we cleverly managed to make this transient behavior even worse. Under a heavy processor load during Mode 3 emulation, the DSP was just running out of cycles (processing ability) and high frequency sounds, such as a strong sibilant, caused even worse crackling in mode 3. We fixed this by making the DSP more efficient, gaining processing time. The fix occurred on July 6 2011. We aren't sure when these SMv transmitters broke, since various tweaks of the code occur regularly and we aren't sure when we just pushed it over the edge. Not all units are affected and not many users have use for mode 3. If you use mode three in an SMv series and have the problem, we will cheerfully load new firmware into the SMv. Specifically, UM's, LM's, HM's, UT's, UH's, older SMv's and all receivers do not have the problem.

The original analog system's problems with sibilance are subtle and you have to listen pretty hard to hear their problem. Our corrected emulation sounds the same. With our broken DSP version on the SMv, it is not subtle at all. You should be able to easily identify a unit that needs the later firmware for mode 3.

Best Regards,

Larry Fisher

Lectrosonics

I'm looking into whether anyone has any experience using the compatibility mode on Lectrosonics receivers (SRa /411) with transmitters from other manufacturers, specifically the Sennheiser 3000/5000 series (I've read Mode 3 should be compatible with the HiDyn plus compander)- what's the range like and how do they sound compared using the original receivers?

I've got a couple of Senn transmitters which can be re-tuned reasonably cheaply, although the receivers are more expensive and I'm looking at other options, at least as a stopgap.

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As wonderful and thorough as Larry's reply is, one thing Lectro can't give is the subjective opinion of a mixer who has used this feature in the field, which, if you read the original post, is the ONLY question Richard has asked. No offense to you, Larry. Your post is informative, thorough, humorous, and well-written as always. I just get tired of wading through replies like the two above Larry's which add nothing to the conversation and seem to be present in every thread. And certainly irrelevant in this one.

Anyway Richard, it sounds like you will be using Mode 3 in the receivers, so the SMv issue will not be a problem. I did a promo once for a show where 2 of the talent was wearing Senn SK5012 transmitters in the same block as my Lectros. I put the receivers in Mode 3 and they worked perfectly. Sounded as good to my ears as the third talent I was picking up on a Sennheiser receiver loaned to me by the audio supervisor of the show (in a different block from my Lectros). One disconcerting thing is the absence of the RF strength "cone" in the display of the 411a. I did not test the range to failure, but I had no problems. Range will be less than Lectros I'm sure, as Sennheisers always are. Anyway, that was only experience, but I was very impressed.

Paul

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" (I've read Mode 3 should be compatible with the HiDyn plus compander) "

I noted this part of the OP, and felt Brandon pointed him to a definitive source, and frankly, I believe a fair one.

While rarely employed by the typical PSM here, these modes are quite useful, and used, in other parts of the wireless marketplace.

" what's the range like and how do they sound compared using the original receivers? "

Lectrosonics has taken the time and effort to program the compatibility modes for particular reasons, not typically relevant to our production sound situations. In doing so and to meet their objectives, they had to, in fact, provide acceptable compatibility for discerning professional users of the competitors products, which I believe, from personal experience, they have done.

Range, generally, is not much of a factor on compatibility, though noise floor issues with companders may contribute slightly to actual performance depending on the situations. A Lectro RX emulating another product's reception cannot alter the variables attributed to the TX's power, or the emulated systems characteristics.

I have personally cross used various combinations of the products covered in compatibility modes on Lectrosonics with the OEM products, and noted no artifacts or distinctions of any of the compatibility modes, including Lectro's own 200 mode. The emulations emulate all of the sound and RF characteristics , including shortcomings, of the emulated systems, just as Larry explained. (I have not personally experienced the overloaded processor sound, but imagine in case of such overload, the issue would be quite noticeable, on the order of trying to go above 0dBfs... When your out of bits, you're SOL...

Disclaimer: my opinions of sound quality are, of course, my own subjective perceptions.

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Sorry to dredge up an old thread, I did find it in a search...

 

I'm wondering about using a Sennheiser G3 transmitter with a Lectrosonics 401 receiver?  Would that work?  Which compatibility mode?  

 

Thanks,

Chris

 

Btw, I did also <cap>.  

Lectrosonics seems to think that it wouldn't work.  The dealer I'd be getting the 401 from tested it and says it sounds great.  So I've got some conflicting information to sort out.  Hoping to hear from someone who's tried this combination out.  

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" The dealer I'd be getting the 401 from tested it and says it sounds great.  So I've got some conflicting information to sort out "

the Senn emulation is a different companding scheme than the Evolution hundreds series, but sounds pretty good...

ask the dealer for a trial period to make your own decision.

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I will definatly ask for an evaluation period. Also I sent an email with my concerns about it (though they're closed right now and probably won't see it till Monday).

If anyone has first hand knowledge about that setup, I'd love to hear it.

I'll be searching the bowels of the Internet for info all weekend.

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I've found the HiDyn plus emulation on my wisycom RX sounds better than expected on sennheiser G3s/G2s with the HDX compander- it's useable and the range seems to be better, although you have to turn pilot tone off on the RX.  It also displays battery level (don't know if lectros do this or not)

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I've found the HiDyn plus emulation on my wisycom RX sounds better than expected on sennheiser G3s/G2s with the HDX compander- it's useable and the range seems to be better, although you have to turn pilot tone off on the RX.  It also displays battery level (don't know if lectros do this or not)

There is a dedicated HDX mode on the Wisy RX, it's called 'EVO' (as opposed to 'SEN' which is HiDyn). If not enabled in firmware I can do it at Raycom.

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A little update, compatibility mode 3 for Sennheiser probably works great on 5k series Sennheiser transmitters but not well on G3s.  It makes noise and sounds close but it's not exact.  The noise floor pumps. At first I didn't notice it (it's a subtle difference) but once I knew what to listen for, it's all I heard.  RF range was indeed much better with the Lectro receiver so the artifacts were worth it for one shoot and not worth it for another.

 

Long story short, I purchased a used UM400a today.  

 

Chris

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I own a Sennheiser SKP 2000 p 48 plug-ins with 100mw maximum power output.

 

I bought the new Lectrosonics system including the new receivers SRB/E01 I should get in a few days.

 

I want to know if this type of receivers allow you to receive the signal from my SKP 2000.

 

Sergio.

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I would expect your experience with the 2000 series will be better than my experience with the G3s. The companders are different and, as I inderstand it, Lectrosonics compatibility mode 3 is made for the higher end Sennheisers.

You will be unable to use pilot tone and transmitter battery info. Also the best it can sound is as good as the weakest link, most likely the transmitter.

Please report back how it works for you.

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Know what, I might be wrong about that. Does the 2000 series have the same compander as the G3? I think it might.

I was pretty disappointed in the sound from the G3.

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I have just recieved a well used but rock solid lectro ut200-87. I was hoping i could down compat it to 100 mode to work with ucr100. But after reading the manual alas there is nothing about compat mode change. I understant that it is older gear but wasnt expecting that. So, how bad will this 200 compat handheld be with my 100 compat reciever. It sounded better than ok but not amazing. Has anyone else used this setup?

Thanks for your time.

Jeremy. NZ

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Jeremy: " I was hoping i could down compat it to 100 mode to work with ucr100. "

should have read the manual, or at least the literature, before buying.

Lectrosonics has always been clear that only digital processing models (series 400) are backward compatible (via digital emulation of the older analog modes!), the earlier series' had no capability to be cross compatible.

Edited by studiomprd

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One of my SMDAs is out of action so I was hoping to use my Sennheiser Evolution G3 TX with my UCR411a but none of the Lectro compatibility modes sound particularly good with G3 in my opinion. The background noise floor has lots of companding artifacts. I think I'm better off just using the G3 receiver (in terms of sound, not range).

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Yes. You'll be able to tune in G3, but it won't be good. I have G3 handheld, which I bought hoping to use with Lectro receiver, but it is unacceptable. If range is an issue, I put Senn receiver close and run XLR back to the cart.

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