High Capacity Bag Power

[sdog]

Greetings,

I am considering the possibility of some high capacity bag power, i.e. something I might be able to use generically for DC equipment - mixers, recorders, etc., but small enough to fit in a sound bag. More specifically, probably something like a Li-ion or Li-ion Polymer external laptop or DVD player battery. My search is inspired by one particular piece of equipment that sounds wonderful, but sucks AA batteries, 8-at-a-time, like a pirate sucks rum. Nevertheless, I'm looking at the power source a little more generically in case I might want to use it for something else as well.

To give examples of the type of batteries I'm looking at:

Tekkeon 3450i

Electrovaya Powerpad 130

Brunton Impel or Sustain

Battery Geeks MP-130

I'm not stuck on these, but they're what I've run across so far.

Has anyone had any experiences, good or bad, with any of these or with a different brand? I've read all the specs, in terms of capacity, dimensions, etc., but as most of these are designed for the rather sedate life of a laptop computer, I'm particularly interested in opinions on build quality, reliability, usability, and all the things that sound guys would care about.

Any favorite high capacity, ultra-portable batteries out there? Or ones to avoid?

Also, if it matters, I use at various times a Petrol PS601 and a Portabrace AR-7. I know some of these batteries wouldn't fit in the AR-7, but I'm more likely to use the PS601.

Thanks,

Doug

[justanross]

Hey Doug,

Not sure about the brands you mentioned. But you might also wanna look at Blue Shape batteries. I know some guys around here that use'em and swear buy them.

For the V-Lock mount, two batteries and a two bank charger you are looking around three grand. Not cheap.

[Olle Sjostrom]

Have you considered NP1-type batteries?

There's a thread here talking specifically about chargers for it:

And here's a link to a battery:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/208321-REG/Bescor_BPNP1_BP_NP1_NP_1_Style_NiCd.html

Overview from Hawkwoods:

http://www.hawkwoods.com/products/np1_solutions/overview/overview.php?mainMenuItemToSlide=5

NP-1 type batteries are great IMHO. They last long and there are shoe adapters that can power 4 hirose-outputs and DC out. So you can easily have them power, say, 4 receivers and one mixer

[studiomprd]

Hi, Doug, and welcome...

Batteries are always being discussed here, pretty much limited to appropriate professional batteries. You can poke around the forum topics, and try the advanced search (or search this site via Google), and of course talk to your professional production sound equipment supplier, who is familiar with the various options, and what is being used by working professionals.

As for creative adaptations, some of us here try such stuff occassionally, and post their results, so watch for that in your reading and searching, as well...

[berniebeaudry]

I used the Tekkeon to power my bag for awhile. I stopped because it induced a high pitched whine in some of my Lectro 211 receivers. Something to do with the switching power supply interacting with the Lectro switching power supply. The size and shape were great (much like the NP1 which is a defacto standard for bag power. I'll sell them to you cheap since I no longer use them. I'm using a lithium ion power pack that I got from Tenergy that isn't too different in weight and shape from an NP1. I got two batteries and a charger for under $300. I had to add my own connectors to the batteries but that wasn't hard.

Here is a company that sells similar products to the Blue Shape stuff but is priced better. Not sure if the NP1s are lithium ion or not.

http://www.batteries4broadcast.com/index.htm

Bernie

[MSpector]

http://www.globalmediapro.com/dp/A296Q4/Globalmediapro-SC1-1-channel-Mini-Charger-2-x-Globalmediapro-DCU95-Battery-95WH-with-D-Tap/

these are 2 batteries set - equal to 3 tekkons ,190 w of power , more then enough for couple of days

I have a dozen of these , works grate

MS

[sdog]

Aw Man, I knew you guys would bring great joy into my life. Thanks for all the suggestions and links. You've given me more information in a couple hours than that fickle, cold-hearted Google has in her entire life. I'll be sad to break off a relationship I've had as long as the one I've had with Google, but I know now that I can never love her as much as I love you guys. Thanks!

The Blue Shapes look like power for days, but I'm not sure I'm ready to sell my children into slavery yet, just to raise the funds.

I was kind of avoiding the NP-1s because I was thinking a slightly higher capacity, but they're so ubiquitous that I should take a second look. Swapping those once in a while would still be more convenient than swapping AAs all the time.

Also intrigued by the value of the Global Media batteries.

Thanks again, guys!

Doug

[John Blankenship]

Have you considered NP1-type batteries?

There's a thread here talking specifically about chargers for it:

And here's a link to a battery:

http://www.bhphotovi...Style_NiCd.html

Overview from Hawkwoods:

http://www.hawkwoods...nuItemToSlide=5

NP-1 type batteries are great IMHO. They last long and there are shoe adapters that can power 4 hirose-outputs and DC out. So you can easily have them power, say, 4 receivers and one mixer

I would not go with Ni-Cads, though (second link, above). Lithium NP-1s are much lighter and last a lot longer -- a win-win. You pay for those advantages, but it's well worth it.

I use IDX NP-1s and IDX chargers. They have proprietary circuitry that communicates between their batteries and the charger. I've been extremely pleased with the system, both for cart and bag use.

[bcopenhagen]

I can second the recommendation for Batteries4Broadcast. In my two-years experience with their Li-Ion NP-style batts, I've found them to perform on par with the de facto standard, IDX.

I know you weren't necessarily considering the NP form factor, but it's a good package.

FYI, the B4B batts are not compatible with iDX chargers.

-Brian

[johnpaul215]

If you are feeling adventurous, a few people have been soldering up connectors on batteries from: http://www.all-battery.com

I'm using this 10Ah guy: http://www.all-battery.com/148volt-10000mahli-polypack31357.aspx

[Michael McQueen]

another nod to batteries4broadcast.

[berniebeaudry]

If you are feeling adventurous, a few people have been soldering up connectors on batteries from: http://www.all-battery.com

I'm using this 10Ah guy: http://www.all-batte...ypack31357.aspx

That's a higher capacity version of the one I use. What connector did you go with and what charger? I have the balance charger for the quicker recharge rate, but can't use the balance function because the battery doesn't have a balance lead. I used the Trex connector and have been really happy with it. The batteries are starting to lose run time so I think I need to do a very slow charge in between shoots to get them going again.

Best,

Bernie

[Geoff Tirrell]

Aw Man, I knew you guys would bring great joy into my life. Thanks for all the suggestions and links. You've given me more information in a couple hours than that fickle, cold-hearted Google has in her entire life. I'll be sad to break off a relationship I've had as long as the one I've had with Google, but I know now that I can never love her as much as I love you guys. Thanks! The Blue Shapes look like power for days, but I'm not sure I'm ready to sell my children into slavery yet, just to raise the funds. I was kind of avoiding the NP-1s because I was thinking a slightly higher capacity, but they're so ubiquitous that I should take a second look. Swapping those once in a while would still be more convenient than swapping AAs all the time. Also intrigued by the value of the Global Media batteries. Thanks again, guys! Doug

There are basically 2 ways to go that would work with the standard BDS system most of us use in our bags. There are the NP1 batteries others have mentioned I personally use a Lithium ion Verizoom battery I think it was 160 for each battery and the same for a 2 slot charger (this is a major price drop). I can only assume because we are pretty much the only remaining market for np1 use.

Most camera people I know have switched over to the Anton Baur bricks and there is an adapter on the market to power bds distribution from them. These should last significantly longer especially if you go with the new High Capacity line ( http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/610983-REG/Anton_Bauer_DIONIC_HC_DIONIC_HC_Lithium_Ion_Battery.html ). If you do buy one make sure to get the smaller size half bricks the big boys are heavy and impractical unless you are powering a camera or a cart. From my experience the dionics can power most ENG sized cameras for an all day shoot with three batteries 4 counting a safety. The down side is they are expensive and the circuitry pretty much requires you to use their batteries with their chargers. That said they also make battery power stations where you can hot swap out batteries as they draw down meaning continuous opperation, more an option for cart type use if the amperage is in the range of what you require.

For me being somebody who does both sound and camera I can tell you that I will probably move to this option in the future as it puts me on the same battery source as the Camera people I work with and we can share a charger on longer jobs, or batteries in an emergency.

Edited September 30, 2011 by Geoff Tirrell

[aristotle_kumpis]

Hey Sdog. Are you by chance trying to find a battery system for the Tascam DR-680?

[sdog]

Hi Aristotle,

Yes. I'm almost embarrassed to mention budget equipment on this list, but I'm a low-budget kind of guy and I'm always trying to see how much value I can get out of the money I've got. I'm not quite sure yet that there's enough high end market in my area to jump to all the high end TC-capable equipment, so for now, I'm just trying to find out what I can do with what I've got. Even though I've surrendered TC workflow, I do still lust after multitrack ISOs. I end up doing post audio on a lot of the projects I work on and am loathe to mix a bunch of lavs down to a single track during production.

My DR-680 has the Chris Busman modded pre-amps on it. I love the sound and it's sooooo close to being a reasonably priced, portable, multitrack, production sound recorder. But... After playing with it for a while, I realize that two hours of battery time is only "playing at portability" (I know, technically you can stretch them to three or four hours, but I always prefer to swap out long before the middle of that critical take).

So, that's my sad tale and I'm sticking to it.

[aristotle_kumpis]

I used the Dr-680 for about a year. It's a great unit. But powering it is a challenge. I bought 4 of these batteries to power the unit. I bought mine from a US dealer, so search around to see if you can find one. But each one of these batteries last about 5-7 hours with the DR-680, if you leave the unit on all day. The downfall is that there is no fast charger and it takes 10 hours to charge each! So I picked up 4 that way I can cycle through them day by day. The connection fits, and it's an inexpensive solution.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-6800mAh-US-Plug-Super-Rechargeable-Li-ion-Battery-/140611700198?pt=US_Batteries&hash=item20bd1c45e6

[Shane Kao]

Hi Aristotle,

Yes. I'm almost embarrassed to mention budget equipment on this list, but I'm a low-budget kind of guy and I'm always trying to see how much value I can get out of the money I've got. I'm not quite sure yet that there's enough high end market in my area to jump to all the high end TC-capable equipment, so for now, I'm just trying to find out what I can do with what I've got. Even though I've surrendered TC workflow, I do still lust after multitrack ISOs. I end up doing post audio on a lot of the projects I work on and am loathe to mix a bunch of lavs down to a single track during production.

My DR-680 has the Chris Busman modded pre-amps on it. I love the sound and it's sooooo close to being a reasonably priced, portable, multitrack, production sound recorder. But... After playing with it for a while, I realize that two hours of battery time is only "playing at portability" (I know, technically you can stretch them to three or four hours, but I always prefer to swap out long before the middle of that critical take).

So, that's my sad tale and I'm sticking to it.

I've been using a busman modded dr680 for about a year myself, started off on AAs for the first couple of gigs and just surrendered as I usually put a mixer in front of it and some hired lectros, decided to go with the remote audio BDS with x02 NP-1 batts from batteries4broadcast and not looking back, one batt can last you a good 6-8 hours just powering the 680 alone, a worthy investment in the long run as well if you consider putting more stuff in the bag for more demanding jobs.

A decision I made just by browsing through this sound group, solid resource!

[Michael McQueen]

My multitrack solution at the current time is the dr680. I power it from my bags bds using the b4b batteries. Powering 680, 552, SRa and 2 211's I get about 5-6 hours of run time.

[sdog]

Any of you DR-680 users powering at 14.4VDC? Any bad effects? I know that technically the DR-680 is spec'ed at 8-to-13VDC (optimum 12V I believe), but a lot of these NP-1 style batteries, at least the Li-Ion, look like they output 14.4V. Just wondering if I need to avoid the 14.4V. It looks like the b4b NP-1s mights be 12V. So maybe I'll just go that direction if I can't figure it out for sure. Seems like quite a few votes for b4b batteries in this thread.

And thanks again everybody. I've been researching every one of these options.

I'm particularly intrigued by the BDS boxes, also.

[johnpaul215]

That's a higher capacity version of the one I use. What connector did you go with and what charger? I have the balance charger for the quicker recharge rate, but can't use the balance function because the battery doesn't have a balance lead. I used the Trex connector and have been really happy with it. The batteries are starting to lose run time so I think I need to do a very slow charge in between shoots to get them going again.

Best,

Bernie

I'll have to check the charger model when I get home, but I bought it from the same company. It has all kinds of modes and power settings depending on your battery. I've been using this battery for over a year, though not all the time.

As for connector, I wired on a basic DC connector, then went from the mate to that DC connector to the TA4 to feed my BDS. I use the DC plug so I can just open the belly pouch on my PEGZ3 and pull the battery for charging. The DC-BDS cable is well concealed under the Fusion, Lectros etc.

[studiomprd]

" spec'ed at 8-to-13VDC (optimum 12V I believe), but a lot of these NP-1 style batteries, at least the Li-Ion, look like they output 14.4V. "

there is a Remote Audio "juicer" for that

[sdog]

Excellent. Thanks Mike!

[MSpector]

" spec'ed at 8-to-13VDC (optimum 12V I believe), but a lot of these NP-1 style batteries, at least the Li-Ion, look like they output 14.4V. "

there is a Remote Audio "juicer" for that

And why do you need that one for 680 ?

No need, no need at all .

The 680 can handle everything up to 16.8 v in the same matter as it constant power device , the only thing that you need watch out if use lithium ,not to discharge it for 100% .

For long life, if you like to get 500-600 charges , make sure you replace the battery at 25-30% remain capacity, about 13.5-14v for 4 cell battery.

MS

[Jon Gilbert]

Buy an NP1 cup, Hawk Woods or similar, and a few Swit NP1s, a good solution that'll see you through when you upgrade to your next recorder. Nothing wrong with the Tascam kit by the way, I used an HD-P2 for years before I took the plunge and bought a 744T, the Tascam's are good, but the Sound Devices kit is very very good, and makes every day at work a bit easier!

[Wandering Ear]

Another b4b user here. Very happy so far.

K

http://wanderingear.net