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Behringer 1002B


Tom Visser

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So long story short, I purchased a really cool little mixer last year, a Studer / Revox 6 channel jobbie that is supposed to have super sweet preamps and all types of direct outputs, slate ability, etc... For some reason that is beyond the scope of this conversation, it is stuck on the mainland and not sure that it will ever get to me. The purpose of this mixer was to handle cart based work, like if I ever did a feature. Needless to say, I'm starting my very first feature in less than a month. So being the broke sound mixer I am, I looked around to see what I could do with little $. I found the Behringer 1002B and the Peavy RQ200 (which is apparently the design that Behringer was heavily "inspired" by. Both of these mixers are tiny and are operated off of batteries if need be.

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I purchased the Behringer new for a little bit over $100 and found the Peavy local for $30, figured I couldn't loose at that price. The Peavy had a broken solder joint on the AC adapter socket, but otherwise AOK. Doing a little snooping around, I opened up both mixers and checked a few things out. I found that the Peavy operated its op amps on +/- 7 or 8 VDC rails. The Behringer surprisingly, operates at a full +/- 15VDC or 30 volt rails. I didn't recognize the opamps in use, but after listening to it, was quite surprised by its sound quality. I did some tests with both mixers running some test tones and with everything at unity, the noise level going into my Pro Tool rig, as a test bed, found that the noise levels were below or equal to the self noise of my rig, so all in all, pretty quiet. I had heard the EQ on the 1002B was horrible because at "zero", the EQ still had a noticeable effect. Again, I played some noise into Pro Tools and opened up an RTA, and found that the signal was pretty much flat. Perhaps this is an issue that plagued earlier units and Behringer had subsequently addressed it?

Anyways, everything looked pretty good. There is a prefade monitor send which I intend on using as a boom op feed and a post fade FX send which would be great for director feed. The only thing that makes this from being a perfect budget solution is the lack of any cut switches...

So I added some...

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The unit has a painfully bright power LED, which I plan on doing something about. I also have a whole laundry list of other modifications that I'm considering doing, but for now, all my basic needs are covered. I'll keep you all posted if I get around to performing any of my other hair brained ideas.

I also replaced all the knobs with Re'an soft touch units which feel better to me, I may reconsider if I loose myself with the lack of color coding, but so far so good. The next thing that I urgently need to do is to add some direct outs and need to upgrade at least one preamp channel, as I really only need a single boom mic, other channels will be wireless.

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The problems I had with mixers of this ilk were power (they use a good deal on AC--50 watts) if you are trying to use an invertor w/ a battery, and that the ph mic power is 23vdc when the mixer is on AC and much lower when it is on its batteries. Were you thinking of modding it to take ext DC? Or will you have regular AC power all the time? Ext mic PSUs? Were you thinking of doing some kind of direct out mod, or is the one insert+ a send enough? If you were doing wireless boom I guess you could live w/o low-cut (since you'd be doing that at the TX). Love the size (and the price).

phil p

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Mixer will run off of DC (15 to 18V, 12V doesn't cut it), no inverter required. If you really want, it can actually run off of a pair of 9V batteries. A 3rd battery slot is there to run phantom power, although at a somewhat useless lower 24V instead of 48VDC. I will be adding 5 direct outputs, using some cheap but high performance line drivers. I guess putting a DB-25 on the back will be the way I go for now. The biggest question is if I need to add another power supply or if the built in power supply can handle the additional juice. I may disable the onboard preamps if current delivery is an issue.

The problems I had with mixers of this ilk were power (they use a good deal on AC--50 watts) if you are trying to use an invertor w/ a battery, and that the ph mic power is 23vdc when the mixer is on AC and much lower when it is on its batteries. Were you thinking of modding it to take ext DC? Or will you have regular AC power all the time? Ext mic PSUs? Were you thinking of doing some kind of direct out mod, or is the one insert+ a send enough? If you were doing wireless boom I guess you could live w/o low-cut (since you'd be doing that at the TX). Love the size (and the price).

phil p

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Hi Tom. I've got one of those Behringer mixers. I bought it as an interface to pro-sumer gear, kind of like a tool kit. I figured it was actually cheaper than buying a bunch of adaptors ( 1/4", RCA etc.). To my big surprise the damn thing sounds really good! I don't use it very often, but it has paid for itself many times over. eg: as a sub-mix for an intercom system, mixer for Comtek feeds, connecting up to a house PA etc. etc. My metalhead son is now using it for his recording projects. congratulations on your imaginative and innovate hack.

Chris Newton

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Nice work Tom! I'm a huge proponent of redesigning machines to suit our needs. Not to Hijack your thread, but what would people be willing to pay for a 302 direct-out mod? Obviously, this would void any warranty, and it would most likely be unbalanced... but if I looked into this mod, what would it be worth to people? Sorry Tom, if there is actual interest in discussing this, maybe someone should start a new thread for it.

Best,

Wyatt

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With respect to a 302 mod, I honestly don't think that there is enough room inside to do so. For a proper direct out, it would need to be buffered, to prevent any anomalies or weirdness affecting the mix buss, at which point, it might as well be balanced. I'm going to use the TI DRV134 which is available in a DIP8 package. It has a 10K input impedance and an intrinsic gain of +6dB. Something to be aware of if you don't have room to add any type of trimming circuit. I would honestly be surprised if you could even fit 3 DRV134's into a 302 chassis, as it is usually pretty packed tight in there, then there is the issue of power... I personally wouldn't wish anyone to hack apart a 302 trying to do this. When it comes to the Behringer, there is no where to go but up.

As an aside, when I wrote Behringer asking for their service manual / schematics, they refused based upon intellectual property issues, which I thought was pretty damned funny. To their credit, the design is a big departure from the Peavy RQ200 inside, even though they look suspiciously similar on the outside.

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" a Studer / Revox 6 channel jobbie that is supposed to have super sweet preamps and all types of direct outputs, slate ability, etc... For some reason that is beyond the scope of this conversation, it is stuck on the mainland and not sure that it will ever get to me. "

I want to hear more about this!

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With respect to a 302 mod, I honestly don't think that there is enough room inside to do so. For a proper direct out, it would need to be buffered, to prevent any anomalies or weirdness affecting the mix buss, at which point, it might as well be balanced. I'm going to use the TI DRV134 which is available in a DIP8 package. It has a 10K input impedance and an intrinsic gain of +6dB. Something to be aware of if you don't have room to add any type of trimming circuit. I would honestly be surprised if you could even fit 3 DRV134's into a 302 chassis, as it is usually pretty packed tight in there, then there is the issue of power... I personally wouldn't wish anyone to hack apart a 302 trying to do this. When it comes to the Behringer, there is no where to go but up.

As an aside, when I wrote Behringer asking for their service manual / schematics, they refused based upon intellectual property issues, which I thought was pretty damned funny. To their credit, the design is a big departure from the Peavy RQ200 inside, even though they look suspiciously similar on the outside.

This is becoming common--when one of my studio monitors died, a Dynaudio unit, TC Electronic refused to give (or sell) my tech a schematic he could use to fix it. That was the end of my use of everything from TC. Ironic, given their history of "borrowing" designs, that Behringer would make this refusal!

phil p

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I have to make another order to Digikey / Mouser... so a couple of days delay, so hold tight for an update. I'm also fighting the urge to do something more extravagant, as the simpler I keep it, the more likely I am to finish the project in time. I plan on using the mixer quite heavily towards the end of this month. Will definitely keep updating this thread with progress and my thoughts / feedback as I start to dig into it.

I was hoping for an update on the mixer project, and wondered if you had a report from using it in the field?

phil p

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Every once in awhile I donate some of my time to the local university students who are working on something for school. Took this as a perfect opportunity to take the mixer out and kick the tires a bit. I was quite pleased with the overall performance of the unit. The mixer was quiet and clean. As I suspected, the mic preamps are a bit noisy when pushed, but as you can see, for prime boom duty, I used outboard preamps, in this case a MixPre-D and also used it to listen to the camera return. I spent plenty of time observing the VU behavior compared to nicer PPM meters and felt comfortable enough to use them for mix reference.

I have to get used to the 60mm fader throw. I had the tendency to overshoot my fader moves, being used to longer throw boards, but I could actually see the short throw as an advantage for fast work once you get your motor reflexes dialed in.

Still waiting to perform the direct output update. I changed my mind and won't be using DRV134 line drivers, but instead something that will allow me to adjust output levels and ends up being easier to mount. I've identified two candidates for tapping the direct output, I think just right before the monitor send pot. More to come on that front...

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry, I was unclear there. I meant, "what are you powering the mixer from"? I think though, after reading the LiFe thread that I know the answer.

I really like this project. I have one of these units and modding it for direct outs seems like a really valuable upgrade. I wonder if my soldering dexterity is high enough to do surgery on PCBs? Anyway, given that you are unlikely to use either of the sends for effects (and keeping in mind the initial value of the unit) would it be possible to simply repurpose one? ...e.g., rather than sending the "FX" to its output take the output of that pot and (maybe using a Dsub on the back) use that as a direct out? You would lose one send but it seems like the benefits would outweigh the loss. I assume the the send must have some kind of amp since it outputs (at least consumer) line level and is pre-fade.

I hope the tramp steamer eventually brings your Studer eventually floats over.

Celac

Edited by Celac
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Sorry, I was unclear there. I meant, "what are you powering the mixer from"? I think though, after reading the LiFe thread that I know the answer. I really like this project. I have one of these units and modding it for direct outs seems like a really valuable upgrade. I wonder if my soldering dexterity is high enough to do surgery on PCBs? Anyway, given that you are unlikely to use either of the sends for effects (and keeping in mind the initial value of the unit) would it be possible to simply repurpose one? ...e.g., rather than sending the "FX" to its output take the output of that pot and (maybe using a Dsub on the back) use that as a direct out? You would lose one send but it seems like the benefits would outweigh the loss. I assume the the send must have some kind of amp since it outputs (at least consumer) line level and is pre-fade. I hope the tramp steamer eventually brings your Studer eventually floats over. Celac

I'm actually using a PSC Power Station for powering duties. The unit outputs multiple voltages, including 6V and 18V, 18V is necessary to utilize the onboard DC-DC converter without further modification. I haven't tested it, but 12V feeding a juicer for 15V may be enough of a boost too. I may some day swap out the lead acid cells for LiFePO4 since the chemistry and power to weight ratio seems to pretty outstanding.

Channels 1 and 2 are mono, but every other channel is stereo. The monitor and FX summing busses are laid out quite plain to see and are easy to tap into. In my case, I'm using the monitor output (pre-fade) for boom feed and FX feed (post fade) for director. It utilizes a single double sided PCB with a small daughterboard for the power supply / regulator. The opamps are surface mount, but most other components are through hole and are relatively easy to solder onto... for simple taps, such as tapping off of for direct output sends. Because most of the channels are stereo, it makes it a bit difficult to decide where to tap the direct output from. If you come off of the line input balanced receiver, then the DO wouldn't send stuff coming in from the mic input and vice versa. Due to the stereo architecture, the most logical point after that is right after the 2x1 mono summing resistors and right before the monitor send pot. The monitor send pot, being a nice big through hole component, also lends itself to being a convenient place to solder the leads. If you didn't need the monitor send, sure, it would provide a nice way to send a pseudo direct signal for one of the channels. Channels 1 and 2 have inserts, so you can do the old half click trick for those two... so without any modification, you can get 3 "sort of" direct outputs. The FX send is not appropriate for "direct" use as it is post fader.

My feature project starts next Tuesday. I have to go to the Big Island this weekend. The components that I purchased for the DO circuits haven't arrived yet and not sure if I'm going to have enough time to do all the necessary soldering to be ready for the feature's start. I think I may catch a break in that the first couple of days may be mostly playback, or at least I hope.

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