RPSharman Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Having just finished a few months with the lovely Alexa, I had forgotten how loud other camera systems can be. Back with the F35 with tape drives, and I am so annoyed by hearing the cameras. I am assured they are on the quietest settings, and I do hear them quiet down while rolling, but it's just so irritating. And I don't even want to start about how loud the DIT cart is. The loudest I have ever experienced. Truly shocking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShubiSnax Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 I always ask the DIT cart be in a separate room. Wish I could ask the same for camera.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted October 5, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 This one needs to be in another building! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Bryant Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 This happened to me too. What made it crazier was the new monitors they brought with the RED that have fans built in as well. They don't seem to turn off while you are rolling. And then producers look at you like you should be accustomed to this situation... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Christian Spaeth Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 This happened to me too. What made it crazier was the new monitors they brought with the RED that have fans built in as well. They don't seem to turn off while you are rolling. And then producers look at you like you should be accustomed to this situation... I have them stick a piece of tape on the fan openings of the monitors during a take. risky, but always worked so far. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 What's up with putting fans in everything!? Ever heard of water-cooling!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 Then you have the noise of the water pump.........wait, you can move the pump next to the noisy genny. Water & electricity always a good mix.'-)) Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Lewis Posted October 5, 2011 Report Share Posted October 5, 2011 in a way its like they just dont care about their sound anymore. The get blinded by the fanciness of a new toy and cant see the big picture anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wandering Ear Posted October 7, 2011 Report Share Posted October 7, 2011 I can't stand how the red epic fans don't turn off, ever. It's managable if their shooting on a long lens (I guess, I can still hear them), but get your actor anywhere close to the thing ... Ughh. http://wanderingear.net Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Patrick Wylie Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I was recently working on a cooking show, that was shooting on....you guessed it the RED. As we all know, it is probably one of the louder digital tape-less cameras out there, but on top of that the monitor it was connected to had a fan that was a hell of lot louder than the RED and that was from a distance. I inquired about the monitor and soon found out that there was a menu option to turn the fan off. I don't have the specifics on the monitor, but I guess I would recommend checking in with the 2nd AC to see if there is a menu option on the particular monitor you are working with that allows the fan to be turned off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted October 25, 2011 Report Share Posted October 25, 2011 Yeah, One more thing for the Sound Crew to search and destroy... I went through the trouble of finding the quietest drives I could get my hands on, and retro-fitting my inverter with a fan interrupt switch (thanks Richard Lightstone for pointing me in the right direction there)... so why should the DIT guys be any different? I think many of them are new to production -- it's a fairly new position and I'm guessing that we have a certain amount of responsibility to set some of these people straight before their methods become an accepted protocol. I usually try to get with the Director as early as possible about stuff like this -- just feel them out... and basically find the most diplomatic way to ask how important their production sound is to them. It really helps set a precedent -- one back to which you can refer when something like camera noise, DIT carts, and on-set monitor fans become an issue. Ultimately though, it's kind of up to the Director (or EP's, but that's a different thread) Just put the wheel in their hands and accept whatever course they want to plot -- it's their ship. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 I also recently finished up a cooking show where the EP was very demanding about good sound and having all the fridges in the restaurant we had to shoot next to be turned off..etc..etc.. YET!! it's ok for her to sit next to the talent (off camera) for the interview segments typing away on her lap top during the entire thing. So, in this case.... the cameras were the quietest thing in the room for a change Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 OH THE IRONY! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Manel Posted October 26, 2011 Report Share Posted October 26, 2011 What's up with putting fans in everything!? Ever heard of water-cooling!? When developing the 3D cameras for the new Mad Max they have done a water cooled version for shooting in the Australian desert... which now will be the Namibian desert... The cameras are monsters, in 3D! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 in a way its like they just dont care about their sound anymore. The get blinded by the fanciness of a new toy and cant see the big picture anymore. And from Taylormadeaudio.... "Just put the wheel in their hands and accept whatever course they want to plot -- it's their ship." I believe BOTH of these statements are true.... It seems that there USED to be more of a TEAM effort on film crews... Lately, I would say the last 5 or 10 years or more, I have seen that way of filming go out the window.... I have said this before, but it's about 5 lbs. of sh-t in a 10 lb. bag.... Shoot shoot shoot... more more more... more needless footage, more cameras because "we are both scared we don't know what we want", and "we are afraid we won't actually get what we need"... This leads to too many cameras shooting crap that will never make it on screen, and in the process, hurts everyone, Sets and Art dept., Lighting, Sound (and Boom ops), and even the camera folks.... all because people are running scared... afraid to plan what they need to shoot, and simply shooting everything in sight, because they now have the ability to run the cameras till the cows come home. This all translates into a mess for us sound persons... Wides during tight shots, inability to sometimes use the mics we want and NEED to use... forcing radios all most all the time in some cases... shooting with 3 REDS (with your loud fans, run by folks who don't sometimes want them in a quieter mode) F--k the sound, they care about the camera overheating...We are the LAST of their worries. So much going on, nobody can concentrate on one thing.... The sound emitting from DITs, Cameras, set stuff 20 ways, locations all get pushed to the side in one big lump of "we have other issues right now"! They literally in some cases don't care.. I think we need to realize that... When they say they do, it's usually for show.... they don't... It is simply expected that somehow, some way you do your job and magically make it work no matter what is going on on set... With the advancements in post, they simply think that almost anything is tolerable... and much of it is, if they want to spend the cash on getting it taken care of... they don't, and they will bitch, but that will come later.... swept right under the rug for now, until the mother-in-law comes to visit... This "newer" way of doing things is the manifestation of a great deal of problems being placed in the lap of Producers and crews.. budgets, expectations, greed, inexperience, and a callous disregard for other crafts and crew members to get a job done for the good of the project. I do and always have thought in the lines of "it's NOT my movie (film-Commercial etc.), so do WTF you want... I will continue to bring things to their attention, make a note, do what i can on set, DO NOT make a fuss and move on.... They in many ways are creating their own problems, let them solve them, and stay calm... It's taken years for me to get to that point... I used to be a hot head.... It used to piss me off... It still does, but I just consider it a lack of respect for our Dept., and the project.... and I just smile and say... "It's not my movie".... If it were, I would care... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 And from Taylormadeaudio.... "Just put the wheel in their hands and accept whatever course they want to plot -- it's their ship." I believe BOTH of these statements are true.... It seems that there USED to be more of a TEAM effort on film crews... Lately, I would say the last 5 or 10 years or more, I have seen that way of filming go out the window.... I have said this before, but it's about 5 lbs. of sh-t in a 10 lb. bag.... Shoot shoot shoot... more more more... more needless footage, more cameras because "we are both scared we don't know what we want", and "we are afraid we won't actually get what we need"... This leads to too many cameras shooting crap that will never make it on screen, and in the process, hurts everyone, Sets and Art dept., Lighting, Sound (and Boom ops), and even the camera folks.... all because people are running scared... afraid to plan what they need to shoot, and simply shooting everything in sight, because they now have the ability to run the cameras till the cows come home. This all translates into a mess for us sound persons... Wides during tight shots, inability to sometimes use the mics we want and NEED to use... forcing radios all most all the time in some cases... shooting with 3 REDS (with your loud fans, run by folks who don't sometimes want them in a quieter mode) F--k the sound, they care about the camera overheating...We are the LAST of their worries. So much going on, nobody can concentrate on one thing.... The sound emitting from DITs, Cameras, set stuff 20 ways, locations all get pushed to the side in one big lump of "we have other issues right now"! They literally in some cases don't care.. I think we need to realize that... When they say they do, it's usually for show.... they don't... It is simply expected that somehow, some way you do your job and magically make it work no matter what is going on on set... With the advancements in post, they simply think that almost anything is tolerable... and much of it is, if they want to spend the cash on getting it taken care of... they don't, and they will bitch, but that will come later.... swept right under the rug for now, until the mother-in-law comes to visit... This "newer" way of doing things is the manifestation of a great deal of problems being placed in the lap of Producers and crews.. budgets, expectations, greed, inexperience, and a callous disregard for other crafts and crew members to get a job done for the good of the project. I do and always have thought in the lines of "it's NOT my movie (film-Commercial etc.), so do WTF you want... I will continue to bring things to their attention, make a note, do what i can on set, DO NOT make a fuss and move on.... They in many ways are creating their own problems, let them solve them, and stay calm... It's taken years for me to get to that point... I used to be a hot head.... It used to piss me off... It still does, but I just consider it a lack of respect for our Dept., and the project.... and I just smile and say... "It's not my movie".... If it were, I would care... Amen, you should write a book lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 And from Taylormadeaudio.... "Just put the wheel in their hands and accept whatever course they want to plot -- it's their ship." I believe BOTH of these statements are true.... It seems that there USED to be more of a TEAM effort on film crews... Lately, I would say the last 5 or 10 years or more, I have seen that way of filming go out the window.... I have said this before, but it's about 5 lbs. of sh-t in a 10 lb. bag.... Shoot shoot shoot... more more more... more needless footage, more cameras because "we are both scared we don't know what we want", and "we are afraid we won't actually get what we need"... This leads to too many cameras shooting crap that will never make it on screen, and in the process, hurts everyone, Sets and Art dept., Lighting, Sound (and Boom ops), and even the camera folks.... all because people are running scared... afraid to plan what they need to shoot, and simply shooting everything in sight, because they now have the ability to run the cameras till the cows come home. This all translates into a mess for us sound persons... Wides during tight shots, inability to sometimes use the mics we want and NEED to use... forcing radios all most all the time in some cases... shooting with 3 REDS (with your loud fans, run by folks who don't sometimes want them in a quieter mode) F--k the sound, they care about the camera overheating...We are the LAST of their worries. So much going on, nobody can concentrate on one thing.... The sound emitting from DITs, Cameras, set stuff 20 ways, locations all get pushed to the side in one big lump of "we have other issues right now"! They literally in some cases don't care.. I think we need to realize that... When they say they do, it's usually for show.... they don't... It is simply expected that somehow, some way you do your job and magically make it work no matter what is going on on set... With the advancements in post, they simply think that almost anything is tolerable... and much of it is, if they want to spend the cash on getting it taken care of... they don't, and they will bitch, but that will come later.... swept right under the rug for now, until the mother-in-law comes to visit... This "newer" way of doing things is the manifestation of a great deal of problems being placed in the lap of Producers and crews.. budgets, expectations, greed, inexperience, and a callous disregard for other crafts and crew members to get a job done for the good of the project. I do and always have thought in the lines of "it's NOT my movie (film-Commercial etc.), so do WTF you want... I will continue to bring things to their attention, make a note, do what i can on set, DO NOT make a fuss and move on.... They in many ways are creating their own problems, let them solve them, and stay calm... It's taken years for me to get to that point... I used to be a hot head.... It used to piss me off... It still does, but I just consider it a lack of respect for our Dept., and the project.... and I just smile and say... "It's not my movie".... If it were, I would care... Wow, you've managed to say in a few paragraphs what I've spent the better part of 20 years trying to figure out how to say. Does anyone remember the "open letter from your sound department" that was circulating a while back? It might be worth re-posting for those who have recently joined, as well as a refresher for those who've already seen it. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 it's ok for her to sit next to the talent (off camera) for the interview segments typing away on her lap top during the entire thing. Was her name Dana? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zack Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Was her name Dana? No... hehe. I'll be happy to say in a PM however Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
old school Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 @ BobD. Well said amigo. A rant with a well learned POV. I was never a hot head, but I feel the same way inside about the our craft and the way new school shooting is screwing up a way of working and producing media that has worked so well for so long. That's why it is so much fun to work with a good crew n director when that work comes along. It will only be ' a few more years' for you n I and I plan to enjoy them as much as I can as I take the money n run. Salude dude. CrewC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan McL Posted October 29, 2011 Report Share Posted October 29, 2011 Having had the great good fortune of working with a lot of folks recently who absolutely see the big picture, a picture that includes digital capacity to make words audibly legible that were once lost to noise, and furthermore, cut it together passably, by golly, what we do doesn't matter as much as it used to in the days of expensive film, two-track recorders and editors with razor blades. That's one way the big picture may be drawn; neither better nor worse in the extreme, it is what it is. I figure it's part of my job to find my place in it with as little drama and as much reality and creativity as I'm able. At first with the digital cameras and monitor fans, made a lot of effort to blanket, etc., but now, I know post can handle it, particularly if it's clear post sound will need to add a layer of b.g. FX to make the scene work. Have educated the focus puller with a monitor whose fan may not be turned off, that a position outside the room is significantly better for me. He complies unless he can't. Fine. Thankfully, post supervisors are adept at weighing beans, and sometimes the beans fall in sound's favor, and that's a story with a happy ending I'll tell another time. Suffice to say, I'm heard more clearly when I speak in the language of beans. You do the best you are able to do with the beans you got. And that's all you can do. Anticipation, collaboration, respect all play their part in the negotiations for cooperation. Our seamstress made us delightful under-arm lab coat / jacket pouches to facilitate wiring one character since her typical wardrobe makes it intrusive to find TX placement. When we started the process of deeply finessing our relationship and points of professional intersection, my eyes teared with glee. I treat wardrobe with maximum respect and positive reinforcement. Wish I could intersect more in advance with costume designers and wardrobe and construction. Not enough prep days yet in my budget range. Perhaps it's time to take a step up. Damn straight This is something I must negotiate for more of: time on the clock to prep well enough in advance of shooting so that this kind of finessing thing can happen sooner. Fun thinking about this subject and apologies for the slight digression. It's Saturday, and I've broken open the Jameson. Happy weekend, y'all. -- Jan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joel Jameson Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 Fun thinking about this subject and apologies for the slight digression. It's Saturday, and I've broken open the Jameson. Happy weekend, y'all. -- Jan Dang it, now I'm going to be spending my next couple down days in the hospital getting unbroken again! Joel Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I have said this before, but it's about 5 lbs. of sh-t in a 10 lb. bag.... Shoot shoot shoot... more more more... more needless footage, more cameras because "we are both scared we don't know what we want", and "we are afraid we won't actually get what we need"... This leads to too many cameras shooting crap that will never make it on screen, and in the process, hurts everyone, Sets and Art dept., Lighting, Sound (and Boom ops), and even the camera folks.... all because people are running scared... afraid to plan what they need to shoot, and simply shooting everything in sight, because they now have the ability to run the cameras till the cows come home. Don't forget, the excessive shooting ratios also crush the post team -- the dailies people, the data people, the assistant editor, and the editors. Whereas maybe 2-3 hours a day used to be the norm, it's often 6-8 hours of footage per day for major films these days. If the director only shoots an hour or two of material, some studio execs immediately panic and will complain "we're not getting enough coverage!" It takes a heavyweight director with great credibility to have the power to say, "nope, we only needed 2 takes and we got what we needed." The problem of noisy cameras is exacerbated mightily by the whole multicamera approach. 1 Red Epic fan is bad enough; 2 is awful; 3 is a nightmare. Now, double that for 3D... there could be more fan noise than dialog on the soundtrack. A noise-to-signal ratio! --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundtrane Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 No... hehe. I'll be happy to say in a PM however I once worked with a producer called Dana who told me "back where we come from sound is very important.." i told her the same thing. week later, tech scout - they show me a place where they're gonna shoot an 1857 period piece but one can her the sound of assorted traffic all over. now she tells me 'i got into this project only six months ago, director had already chosen the locations...do the best you can..." ...later in the shoot she stormed up to me and said 'vin, why aren't you recording any ambiences?" i said "sdfjh fkj#^shf uewr@(& hjad hjsj328 dh*&@&#^" to her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris McCallum Posted October 30, 2011 Report Share Posted October 30, 2011 I once worked with a producer called Dana who told me "back where we come from sound is very important.." i told her the same thing. week later, tech scout - they show me a place where they're gonna shoot an 1857 period piece but one can her the sound of assorted traffic all over. now she tells me 'i got into this project only six months ago, director had already chosen the locations...do the best you can..." ...later in the shoot she stormed up to me and said 'vin, why aren't you recording any ambiences?" i said "sdfjh fkj#^shf uewr@(& hjad hjsj328 dh*&@&#^" to her. Best laugh I have had in a long time! I have just come off an 8 week doco shoot with 3 and 4 hour interviews situated right next to a main rail line with a level road crossing and a suburban station. I feel your pain! How do you answer the question "was that train too loud?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
.png.279748a58a2b862b7aa5f3b84126e232.png)
.thumb.jpg.b62d3b0667e4ee0fd0c7f8e5d8c15591.jpg)
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.