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Recent Grad, Lo-Budget Shoot for "We newbies..."


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A good place to start is with minimum (legal) wage rates, keeping in mind that, in most cases, over 8 hours is at 1.5x, and over 12 hours is at 2x. At (favorite fast food) you would also get benefits!

avoid giving away your equipment (cutting the grass).

Edited by studiomprd
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I'm sure this is the case, however it would be nice to know a range so that we can figure out if we are being fairly compensated or not. I think since we are starting out we are not too sure as to what the standards are yet. We probably won't have an idea until we've done enough gigs or someone offers to pay us more then we expected. It might take a while to understand the range of wages per job type or someone can be so kind as to chime in here and speed us up a bit. Please....

I like the idea of favored nations compensation, meaning equal pay. You are most likely bringing gear equal to or greater in value than the DP/owner/operator. Your contribution is critical. Bad picture can be disguised or cut around. Bad sound screams "low budget"! If they balk at equal pay to DP, say you'll take $50 less per day. If there is a separate operator, demand equal pay to operator (with extra rental for your gear).

Senator's minimum wage scale is good, but be sure to add on for gear, or make them rent it elsewhere and you'll run it.

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ok, so let me ask you guys this. what would you consider fair for a Million Dollar feature? I may be mixing for one next month and just wanted to know what to expect. My friend is the Producer and so he is going to hire me for sound. So far I've been told the budget for sound is $450 a day. Is this normal for someone with my experience (one low budge feature under my belt, many shorts, several commercials) for a project of this scale? Oh yeah, and one other important detail, the film may flip and go union. Would this mean I would get Union wages since this may be my ticket in? Or am I totally wrong about all this?

Steven, don't mean to hijack your thread. I just figured we can both appreciate the info.

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" the budget for sound is $450 a day " for 10 hours..??

for a 2 person sound crew, and including equipment??

I don't think so...

"Real" (aka proper) features are not one-person-band for sound, they have a 2 person sound crew, a mixer and a boomer (minimum). and a real movie has separate money for its equipment needs.

I'd suggest more like $750 /10 for a sound crew with small movie package, with wages on a payroll, plus equipment rental; and if he is your friend, he will pay you properly.

" Would this mean I would get Union wages "

It depends...(sigh)!

at that budget level, the IATSE will probably agree to whatever they were paying you before the flip, plus H&W contributions. the good part is you get an "organizational" membership, and your days will count.

Edited by studiomprd
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I like the idea of favored nations compensation, meaning equal pay. You are most likely bringing gear equal to or greater in value than the DP/owner/operator.

I have worked quite a few shoots where I had far more money tied up in my sound gear than the Red camera, tripod, head, and one lens, maybe even the grip truck. Smart producers realize that when you add up the costs of multiple wires, the recorder, a mixer, boom, timecode slates, decent microphones, and all the incidentals, it doesn't make sense to nickel-and-dime the sound department. I've warned producers before: even skimping on a boom op is unwise, because having one more crewmember will help reduce the shoot time by at least 10%. That quickly adds up each day.

ok, so let me ask you guys this. what would you consider fair for a Million Dollar feature? I may be mixing for one next month and just wanted to know what to expect. My friend is the Producer and so he is going to hire me for sound. So far I've been told the budget for sound is $450 a day.

I hate to say this, but it depends.

I have a friend who's currently putting together a personal project right now, and he's putting a budget together for a $2 million feature. We took an existing $1 million budget, doubled the above-the-line bill, then selectively increased the crew labor as necessary. It's very sobering to look at the line items on an actual budget.

Realistically, a feature rate to me depends more on the number of speaking roles, the specific challenges of the shoot, and the equipment involved, plus the number of actual shoot days. I also think you have to budget in a sound mixer and a boom op (if not a third), just to handle moving and keeping track of all the gear. If there's just two actors in an office for 90% of the shoot, that's one thing, but realistically, it's going to be a lot more than that. $450 a day for a mixer, boom op, and gear is cutting it too thin for me, personally. Even adding 50% to that would be dicey.

Here's a link to the current IATSE Low-Budget Agreement:

http://204.92.123.23...t-2010-2013.pdf

I'm not saying this is applicable to your specific situation, but at least it will give you a reference as to where a low-budget union shoot starts. Add equipment to that, and it can easily be $1000+ a day. Realistically, I think non-union shoots wind up at whatever the individual can negotiate. There's been more than one occasion where I've had to hammer a producer for what I think is a reasonable rate, and he finally says, "OK, but don't tell anybody else what I'm paying you, because they're all working for a lot less." (And I'd be shocked to discover that he spewed that line to everybody.)

--Marc W.

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" negotiate for more money. "

you did say he is a friend...

what sort of friendship?? one way, or two way ??

in other words, as a friend, s/he expects you to do all the giving, and work too cheap, or as a friend, s/he will make sure you are treated properly.

" We took an existing $1 million budget, doubled the above-the-line bill, then selectively increased the crew labor as necessary. "

That is backwards!

Budgeting: the big Pandora's box.

first a small anecdote from years back, a producer in L.A.was planning another shoot during a project, and asked me about setting it up in Hawai'i... I provided lots of information and he did indicate he wanted me to be on the shoot. later in discussions he did ask me to do the gig, on the Big Island of Hawai'i, at my LA rate (OK!), but no hotel or per diem, as others were getting. He said as I "lived in Hawai'i", I was going to be a local hire -actually most of the Hawai'i hires were from Oahu, and needed hotel + per diem too...-- I pointed that out to him and he said, as he sat in front of his B&W Macintosh notebook computer (way before they were called MacBook's) and he said: Look, it isn't in the budget... I leaned in,-- type-type-type--... and I said "now it is!"

Budgeting a movie is under-appreciated, and not very well presented in most "movie schools". Of course the script drives the budget, but not alone. I just saw an interesting article http://www.hollywood...st_101911%20(29)%20(1)&utm_content= about how Jerry Bruckheimer brought down the budget for The Lone Range to get Disney to light the green-light. He cut the crazy money above the line, he streamlined the shoot, even took out some stuff that would be expensive to do. He did not cut the crew's rates, and, as an army travels on its (collective) stomach, I'll bet he didn't pinch pennies much on catering and "craft services" (his movies are epicurean adventures!) As it would affect what gets to the screen all the necessary equipment is included, and paid for, and safety is never compromised.

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I am loving this thread, learning a lot about rates which makes me think twice about the jobs ive been taking. I was always hesitant to charge more for my services, for some reason I thought having higher grade equipment would constitute charging more but like senator says, its not about the arrows. Thanks for the valuable information guys, I hope it keeps comin

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Something that I have seen mentioned, but have yet to see any actual examples of: Contracts for these gigs.

Can anyone provide some examples that they use on their own gigs, and how do you go about presenting them to the producers so that you still have the job? I haven't had anything in writing for any of my gigs yet, except for the gear rental side business that I created my own contract for. I'd be happy to post a copy of that, kinda a "I'll show mine if you show yours" bit.

Formalizing the responsibilities of a show in the event of equipment damage is another question for contracts. All the gigs I have had so far have been through friends and acquaintances, so I haven't really had to do a lot of negotiation. I had a PA gig that was basically booked with a phone call, I didn't really even know the rate (OK, I forgot to ask on the call) until I got to the gig, and if there was a contract at all, I never saw it.

I won't have a problem with this... Until that time that something happens or I don't get paid, then obviously it will be a BIG problem. How can we protect ourselves?

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ok, so let me ask you guys this. what would you consider fair for a Million Dollar feature? I may be mixing for one next month and just wanted to know what to expect. My friend is the Producer and so he is going to hire me for sound. So far I've been told the budget for sound is $450 a day.

Just to put it into perspective:

On a "million-dollar" feature shooting for say, 6 weeks -- I know, it's more likely to be 4 or 5 weeks, but bare with me... let's say the entire production sound budget is $30,000... that's for expendables, kit rental, Sound Mixer and Boom Op wages (forget the Sound Utility position -- in my experience, most productions at that level won't pay for a Sound Utility) ...in any case, $30k is still 3% of the budget... 3%

divide it out over 30 days: that's $1000 / day...

say they can find a decent Boom Op for $250 / day

say the expendables are around $50 / day

...that still leaves $700 / day for the Sound Mixer with gear.

and that's for 6 weeks -- the #'s go up as the # of shooting day's decrease.

So if a "million dollar" feature can't find $30k for their production sound (3%) regardless of the # of shooting days, chances are, you won't want to be involved because they obviously either have absolutely no experience making budgets, or they don't give a rats ass about the production sound -- either way, you (the Sound Dept.) will suffer for it.

Yes, experience is a huge factor, but so is self-assuredness... speak their language -- numbers. Factor in the likelihood of ADR and the associated costs if they cut corners on production sound. Assure them the initial investment on production sound is money well spent!

...just my $.02

~tt

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I agree 100% with Taylor above. $30,000 for the production sound budget on a small feature is not that extravagant, spread out over a 6-week period, with equipment and a boom op.

I pointed that out to him and he said, as he sat in front of his B&W Macintosh notebook computer (way before they were called MacBook's) and he said: Look, it isn't in the budget... I leaned in,-- type-type-type--... and I said "now it is!"

I did the same thing with my friend: "Add another decimal place to the sound budget!"

Seriously: the only drastic increases in the budget between a $1 million film and a $2 million film were 1) bigger-name actors, and 2) a longer shooting schedule, including more time for rehearsals. Everything else had modest-to-reasonable increases.

There's a good piece on Trew Audio's site at this link, along with a sample deal memo.

--Marc W.

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