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RIP Film?


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"The Kids Are All Right" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0842926/) or "The Kids Are Alright" (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0079400/) and are you confused about the "3 years ago" thing?

The first, with Annette Bening and Julianne Moore. It was the last project I did as a colorist for Technicolor, for DP Igor Jadue-Lillo, in May-June 2009. Our big layoff was in August of that year, whereupon I became a full-time sound guy.

One reason for our layoff was our management's slow response to the effect of the industry changing over to digital more quickly than expected. I'd be angry about it, but all the people that made those decisions are now also unemployed. I believe it was Chairman Mao who once said, "those who live long enough will eventually see the bodies of their enemies as they flow down the river."

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Regardless if film is dead or not at this particular moment, the writing is on the wall.

I strongly prefer film. I think motion looks more organic, the forgiveness latitude is exceptional, and the archiving qualities are far superior to digital. But without a good support infrastructure, film will go away. Labs are becoming rare, and continued film manufacturing is far from certain. I think it has lasted as long as it has because it is a legacy format, and with a century of movies already shot on film, some infrastructure will have to remain to restore existing pictures that were made with traditional negatives. That, combined with the increasing popularity of IMAX, may keep film alive as a niche format, but the hey-day of celluloid is long gone.

We must adapt, because the trend will not reverse. Digital is in it's infancy, and already the results are very intimidating. Does anyone think we won't have a superior product in just 10 years?

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Martin Scorsese to abandon film to shoot movies digitally

A long-term Scorsese collaborator conceded the collapse of film was “impossible to fight”.

NICK CLARK

THURSDAY 28 JUNE 2012

Martin Scorsese is to abandon shooting movies on film and turn to digital, after a long-term collaborator conceded the collapse of the format was “impossible to fight”.

The celebrated Hollywood director, who has long campaigned for the use of film and restoration of old prints, has “lost the battle” and is to shoot his next project, The Wolf of Wall Street with Leonardo DiCaprio, digitally.

Rest of the article:

http://www.independe...ly-7893449.html

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I believe it was Chairman Mao who once said, "those who live long enough will eventually see the bodies of their enemies as they flow down the river."

Sun Tzu

Damn! I listened to the audio book version of The Art of War during the 1980s, but that quote sounded for sure like my main man Mao.

That piece about Scorsese is getting a lot of press. It's ironic that a man who's worked tirelessly to preserve hundreds of important films -- even made an award-winning movie that dealt with this subject -- is now abandoning film to shoot strictly digitally. On Arri Alexa, BTW.

I think we'll really know film is dead when Spielberg makes a similar announcement.

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Wasn't Spielberg (or perhaps a Universal blowhard) quoted on a Universal 100th Anniversary promo reel that even though they are digitally restoring films like Jaws, they are printing the restored movie back to negatives for archiving? I get the feeling that film will somehow stick around in a niche manner, much like vinyl. There's still no adequate answer to properly archiving digital productions for 30+ years.

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Yes, that's true. I worked on quite a few 4K restoration projects in video post over the last 10 years, and in many (but not all) cases, we output a 4K digital negative to 35mm interneg stock for the vault. The theory is, if all the hard drive crashes, if file formats change, even if the EMP hits, the film will probably survive.

The Academy has issued several reports about the problem of long-term archival storage (for both picture and sound), "The Digital Dilemma." Quite a sobering account of the problems faced by the studios, networks, distributors, and others. You can make a good argument that the problem is getting worse, not better, over time, because there are new camera formats and new file formats coming out literally every four or five months.

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  • 1 year later...

Not dead! P.T. Anderson shot The Master on 65mm. Read on...

 

And how well did that movie do?  Mmmm-hmmmmm....

 

J.J. Abrams says he will shoot the next three Star Wars films on celluloid, and I know Christopher Nolan has shot his upcoming release Interstellar on film, but I dunno how long this can go on. Now we have the problem where Kodak is making the film, but it's getting harder and harder to get it developed

 

The current Spiderman movie was also shot on film, but when it has 1600 digital visual effects, at some point it's more digital than it is film. 

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  • 1 month later...

And how well did that movie do?  Mmmm-hmmmmm....

 

J.J. Abrams says he will shoot the next three Star Wars films on celluloid, and I know Christopher Nolan has shot his upcoming release Interstellar on film, but I dunno how long this can go on. Now we have the problem where Kodak is making the film, but it's getting harder and harder to get it developed

 

The current Spiderman movie was also shot on film, but when it has 1600 digital visual effects, at some point it's more digital than it is film. 

 

hopefully fellas like this will keep the dream alive.  http://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/cintel

 

as a viewer, film is king.

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Since these BMD Scanners are really just the same Sensor as the 4K BMC camera with a transport and light source for copying the film to digital in real time,  what do you  gain by shooting in film over using the same Black Magic sensor in one of their cameras to shoot on originally?   Film just ads another layer of noise (Grain) and motion instability (bob and weave)  Since the product will probably be distributed digitally and never projected on celluloid  what is the point of going through the extra expense and extra time costs of the buying and storing the stock, processing the negative  and long term cold storage?  Remember color negative stock is not the same as YCM black and white interneg stock used for archiving.  It breaks down quickly over time and color fidelity of the camera negative fades quickly over  a decade or so.

 

I think shooting on film will go away completely  in the next 5 years.. Even the super powerful directors of big studio blockbusters will be forced to move off their artistic choice because of lack of infrastructure to handle it.

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Since these BMD Scanners are really just the same Sensor as the 4K BMC camera with a transport and light source for copying the film to digital in real time,  what do you  gain by shooting in film over using the same Black Magic sensor in one of their cameras to shoot on originally?   Film just ads another layer of noise (Grain) and motion instability (bob and weave)  Since the product will probably be distributed digitally and never projected on celluloid  what is the point of going through the extra expense and extra time costs of the buying and storing the stock, processing the negative  and long term cold storage?  Remember color negative stock is not the same as YCM black and white interneg stock used for archiving.  It breaks down quickly over time and color fidelity of the camera negative fades quickly over  a decade or so.

 

I think shooting on film will go away completely  in the next 5 years.. Even the super powerful directors of big studio blockbusters will be forced to move off their artistic choice because of lack of infrastructure to handle it.

The same reason recording to audio tape then transferring to pro tools,  to my ears is far superior to going direct to pro tools.  I very rarely hear modern albums that 'sound'  really impressive.  And the ones that do, after research end up being tape that was transferred to pro tools.

 

Tape and film react completely different then the a/d converters on both video and audio.

 

The sensor on this black magic film deck are designed to capture completely raw and flat...   the sensor on the B/M camera is designed to also capture raw, but with their own color curve built in.

 

Film has a curve that is simply not acheivable by digital cameras.  The same way digital audio cannot replicate the sound of tape.  

 

And this is why more and more movies have burnt out washy background,  mushy faces and lack of richness and texture.  And also kind of look like reality tv / vs a movie.  They look to real, haha,  to me,  I like the illusion and mystique of film.

 

Show me a movie shot on digital that can come within spitting distance of something like...  War horse,  by steven spielberg from 2011.     

 

I have my preference in the digital world,  Sony F65 i think is incredible and the Alexa also.    Red cameras I could care less if they dissapeared, they are a boon to the film world,  haven't seen work done on the Dragon,  hoping things have improved.

 

I agree with you though... film is Dead,  Tape is dead.

 

My dream product would be a film camera that instantly captures to digital media with a repro head in-camera.  So it's essentially a digital camera with the 'look' of film.

Same with audio,  I would dream of a sound interface for my studio work that captures to tape and drops to digital with a repro head after the fact.  

Just as an option.  :-) 

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The same reason recording to audio tape then transferring to pro tools,  to my ears is far superior to going direct to pro tools.  I very rarely hear modern albums that 'sound'  really impressive.  And the ones that do, after research end up being tape that was transferred to pro tools.

 

Tape and film react completely different then the a/d converters on both video and audio.

 

The sensor on this black magic film deck are designed to capture completely raw and flat...   the sensor on the B/M camera is designed to also capture raw, but with their own color curve built in.

 

Film has a curve that is simply not acheivable by digital cameras.  The same way digital audio cannot replicate the sound of tape.  

 

And this is why more and more movies have burnt out washy background,  mushy faces and lack of richness and texture.  And also kind of look like reality tv / vs a movie.  They look to real, haha,  to me,  I like the illusion and mystique of film.

 

Show me a movie shot on digital that can come within spitting distance of something like...  War horse,  by steven spielberg from 2011.     

 

I have my preference in the digital world,  Sony F65 i think is incredible and the Alexa also.    Red cameras I could care less if they dissapeared, they are a boon to the film world,  haven't seen work done on the Dragon,  hoping things have improved.

 

I agree with you though... film is Dead,  Tape is dead.

 

My dream product would be a film camera that instantly captures to digital media with a repro head in-camera.  So it's essentially a digital camera with the 'look' of film.

Same with audio,  I would dream of a sound interface for my studio work that captures to tape and drops to digital with a repro head after the fact.  

Just as an option.  :-) 

 

I don't know about it being "superior". The saturation, texture, colors, etc., of analog mediums (in both film and tape), in contrast to those of digital, are merely artifacts of the mediums themselves (be it film or tape). Whether you prefer the analog look (or sound) over digital is a stylistic choice IMO, that may be a result of your preferences, or what you may have been already used to (digital is relatively new after all).

 

Now, regarding the life expectancy of film, I do agree as well that it may not be around for much longer; it is a very tedious, time-consuming, and expensive workflow. But I also have the feeling that there will always be that one artist who chooses to express his/her vision in the medium.

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