Rasmus Wedin Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Im doing a reality gig tomorrow where we are following a police officer who will be doing target shooting on a shooting range. I'm a bit hesitant to lav this officer since I fear a gun going off 50 cm from the lav might crack its membrane. Am I correct in this or am I just being overly cautious? Anybody got experience in similar situations? The lavs will be DPA 4060. They are quoted to have "134 dB SPL max". Does that mean before they distort or before they start to take damage? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
geordi Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 It means before they distort, and different microphones will behave differently in extreme SPL situations. This will be a very short and sharp transient, not anything like the punishment a mic would receive from high wind or jet engine noise. It should be OK, but you actually might want to use a cheaper mic anyway. Here's why I say that: A few years ago I was mixing a stage show where the actors were firing large weapons. This was an outdoor theatre, so they were (for effect) using big loads too - LOUD. I had the stage miked with boundary mics like the Crown PCC-160, an AKG unit (don't know the number) and a couple cheap Nady hockey pucks. The Crown and the AKG both rang like a bell every time the shotgun went off within 6 feet of them, ruining the effect with the high pitched chime. They were fine, but that was their distortion mode apparently. I moved them around and put the Nady in place, which (IIRC) had a lower SPL rating. All I got from that was the dull crack of the shotgun blast, exactly as it sounded live. This was even with the gun directly over the mic, about 5 feet away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alex Mitchell Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 You'll be fine. I have had lavs on actors before with gunshots and things turned out alright. I even boomed a gunshot once from not too far away (from behind the blast radius, mind) and that went okay too. If you look at some of the videos they did on the sound for "Inception," you see them taping lavs to the barrels of guns to get a certain kind of sound. It was pretty neat. I believe that these mics are a little more durable than we think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I've generally not had any difficulty with lavs on actors firing weapons. Still, I would hesitate using a particularly expensive mike in that situation. In the course of my career, I've blown two microphone diaphragms with gunfire- once with a Sennheiser MKH 416 and once with a Neumann KMR-81. An expensive fix both times. The Neumann was particularly painful as the company had a policy (since changed, I believe) of replacing the active capsule as a matched set with the interference tube. That repair came to more than $800. Both of these occasions occurred with fully automatic fire; I've not had any difficulty with single shots. In any event, gunshots can blow a microphone so it's best not to tempt fate too much. It's the reason that I keep an Oktava mike in my kit. But the likelihood of a problem is small so I think you'd be OK to go with one of the older lavs in your kit or something replaceable for, say, $200. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RPSharman Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I have mixed a couple of movies with LOTS of gunfire. The actors often wore COS-11s or MKE2s with no damage to either. Not to say it can't happen, but I'm talking about a serious bombardment from a variety of very loud weapons. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Visser Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 4060's are going to distort heavily on gunfire (at the capsule's preamp). Use something less sensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted October 18, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 4060's are going to distort heavily on gunfire (at the capsule's preamp). Use something less sensitive. I'm not so much worried about the how the gun shots will sound in the lav since I will be standing further back getting that sound with a boom. I'm more worried it will be such a loud sound it damages the lav, or even breaks it. I know 4060s are very sensetive, but since we got this gig with very short notice (today), I have no time to buy or re-wire any other lavs for this shoot. So all-in-all, I guess the concensus is "It should be fine, but you never know". Hmm, so many grey areas in this bussiness..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Only a Shure SM58 can survive a direct hit. Otherwise, no harm will come to your lavs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 " SM58 can survive a direct hit. " EV's 635 & RE50 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glen Trew Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yes, I thought about the 635 and RE50 as soon as I pressed POST. The 635 is at least as bullet proof, and the RE50 is basically a 635 in an isolation handle. gt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfisk Posted October 18, 2011 Report Share Posted October 18, 2011 I've used this lav inside engine compartments on race cars that are well above the threshold of pain, and they survived just fine. I wouldn't worry about damage, just distortion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MT Groove Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I have used COS-11's on talent firing thousands of rounds of .308's to .50 calibers to Canons. They're work just as good as new. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Steigerwald Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Two seasons of Top Shot with everything from handguns to cannons. No mics lost to gunfire yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Well, it's an impressive list of people who have used lavs with all kinds of gunfire without any adverse effects. And, that's consistent with my own experience. I've never had a problem with lavs, only boom mikes and, even then, only with fully automatic fire. So, I'll revise my recommendation based on the weight of the collective experience of the group - go ahead and use your DPA 4060s. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Thanks for the input guys, I'm off to the shooting range with my 4060s. Thanks for the reassurence and experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rasmus Wedin Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I'm back and everyting went fine, the 4060s survived the day. Thanks again! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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