tong Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Hi all, Before Nomad officially arrives to Sg, I got myself a Zoom H1 because my Zoom H4n went robust!. Unfortunately for me, the line input doesn't seem to match with my SD 442 XLR - 10 or Line Outputs! The only output that works now with the H1 is the Tapes out on the 442. I know it has something that got to do with the Line Input on the H1 and XLR Output level because I managed to get the XLR outputs on my 302 to work after padding it down to -10 Line. any idea how do I go around solving it for the 442? Put some resistors in the 1/8 - 2 XLR cable that I had made maybe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Waldron Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Use the TA3 or 1/8 tape out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Hi all, Before Nomad officially arrives to Sg, I got myself a Zoom H1 because my Zoom H4n went robust!. Unfortunately for me, the line input doesn't seem to match with my SD 442 XLR - 10 or Line Outputs! The only output that works now with the H1 is the Tapes out on the 442. I know it has something that got to do with the Line Input on the H1 and XLR Output level because I managed to get the XLR outputs on my 302 to work after padding it down to -10 Line. any idea how do I go around solving it for the 442? Put some resistors in the 1/8 - 2 XLR cable that I had made maybe? Not sure what you mean by "match". The problem could be that the 3.5mm inputs on the H1 are unbalanced and your cables are wired balanced. Open the XLR end of the cable and see if pins 1 & 3 are tied together. If they're not tied that very well could be your problem. A bit more specific info about "matched" would help. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tong Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Not sure what you mean by "match". The problem could be that the 3.5mm inputs on the H1 are unbalanced and your cables are wired balanced. Open the XLR end of the cable and see if pins 1 & 3 are tied together. If they're not tied that very well could be your problem. A bit more specific info about "matched" would help. Eric My 1/8 - XLRF(2) are joined unbalanced. Common Ground (1), Tip to Pin 2 (Left XLR), Ring to Pin 2 (Right XLR), Pin 3 is blank for both XLRs. I checked out the Input Impedance of the H1. According to the manual, it says that is 2k ohms. the 442 Line Output Impedance is for use with >600 ohms input, while -10 Output Impedance is at >10k ohm inputs. Could this be the issue? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tong Posted November 9, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 Use the TA3 or 1/8 tape out. Yes i tried and it sounded ok. But i am thinking if it is possible via the XLR outputs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Reineke Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 I occasionally use the Tape out with a TA3 to 1/8" cable and that works and sounds fine on my H2's line-in. There's no way the Zoom's input stage can handle the output of the XLR without some kind of attenuation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Angelo Waldron Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 There are times when you need to Keep It Simple S....... Why would you want to add more weight by using XLRs? Save the transformer XLR outs for camera feed. TA3 is the correct level and it locks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 My 1/8 - XLRF(2) are joined unbalanced. Common Ground (1), Tip to Pin 2 (Left XLR), Ring to Pin 2 (Right XLR), Pin 3 is blank for both XLRs. I checked out the Input Impedance of the H1. According to the manual, it says that is 2k ohms. the 442 Line Output Impedance is for use with >600 ohms input, while -10 Output Impedance is at >10k ohm inputs. Could this be the issue? Impedence is not the problem. Connection is. You need to connect the ground (XLR pin 1 to XLR pin 3) to truely unbalance the circuit. Pull the xlr out of it's shell and plug everything together as normal with the female xlr plugged in to the 442 and the tone on. Use a screwdriver blade or a piece of wire to temporarly connect pins 1 & 3. Try it, betcha it solves your problem. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted November 9, 2011 Report Share Posted November 9, 2011 " the line input doesn't seem to match with my SD 442 XLR - 10 or Line Outputs! " well, what do you expect from a $100 toy?? Another shoot from the lip non answer. If you knew anything about proper unbalancing you would offer a practical answer on how to solve the problem. Obviously you don't so you flap your gums just to hear yourself babble. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 I occasionally use the Tape out with a TA3 to 1/8" cable and that works and sounds fine on my H2's line-in. There's no way the Zoom's input stage can handle the output of the XLR without some kind of attenuation. The attenuation happens when you unbalance the output from the 442. It's 6db less than a balanced signal. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RadoStefanov Posted November 10, 2011 Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 The answer is 552! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tong Posted November 10, 2011 Author Report Share Posted November 10, 2011 Thanks guys. I think i will just stick to my TA3 tape out to H1 for now. Still waiting for the arrival of Nomad in my country. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 I always carry an inline pad with me, just in case I encounter a situation like this. The Shure A15AS can be a lifesaver. I just had to use one of those a couple of weeks ago, when I encountered a camera crew who couldn't figure out how to switch their camera into line instead of mike. It was easier to just step down the level with an attenuator than to dive into the menus. --Marc W. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted November 11, 2011 Report Share Posted November 11, 2011 Shure also makes a fixed value 50dB pad, Audio Technica has them with different values than Shure, and there are several other's out there, including fixed values on the fives and tens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rich Reilly Posted November 26, 2011 Report Share Posted November 26, 2011 I used the 442's 1/8" tape out into H4N line in the other day and it sounded decent. Nice that an inexpensive slender cable could be routed there. But the fact that it doesn't lock is a good point. I suspect the Beachtek/60D cam audio will be used anyway. A thread somewhere else had folks claiming, despite the drawbacks of going through the H4N preamp, going XLR mic out to XLR mic in avoids impedance issues and gives better results. Regarding pads, another option is made by Sontronics called ST-PAD/PHASE. Has two independent 10db switches and a phase invert switch. But I only wish "my Zoom H4n went robust!". As in suddenly gained timecode in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soundperson Posted November 16, 2012 Report Share Posted November 16, 2012 I did what Eric is telling here with my H4N and added -40db pad and setting from my PSC M4 a+ out is line out NOT mic out. I get good sound too form the H4N. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeeKai Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 Resurrecting a bit of an old thread here but what the heck: When running the 442 unbalanced TA3 or the 1/8" tape out/mix out into the line in on the H1(and the devices are calibrated with 0dbu tone =-20dbfs), digital clipping is introduced when the 442 signal is somewhere around +17dbu. Now the obvious quick workaround is to set the limiters on the 442 at +15/16dbu and compensate by turning up the H1 input volume if you really want to. My question is: Is the impedance mismatch (442 tape out is intended for >6k inputs while the H1 input is 2k) what causes this early overload? Or is it a case of lower quality inputs/circuitry maybe? Crappy AD convertor? Unless my signal flow is all wrong?disclaimer: I know I'm discussing the merits of interfacing pro equipment with a toy recorder but what the heck - it interests me and sometimes it's good to run a backup in a straight to camera situation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 The TA3 & 1/8" outputs on a 442 are at -10 prosumer level. Pretty much a very good match for pocket style recorders line in connections. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted June 25, 2013 Report Share Posted June 25, 2013 " a case of lower quality inputs/circuitry maybe? Crappy AD convertor? " possibly, there is also the level difference, as well as loading the higher z outputs by the lower z inputs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrd456 Posted July 31, 2013 Report Share Posted July 31, 2013 Rule of thumb-------You can put low Z into high Z, but not the reverse.Usually OK----watch your levels. J.D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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