Jeff Babb Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Yes, economic conditions are probably the biggest single factor... as to the border crossings: Careful what you wish for -- that could very well happen in the not so distant future... ~tt While legal to purchase in South Carolina and not in Georgia, farm fresh milk was intercepted in 2009 at a border crossing and summarily destroyed by Georgia and Federal agents without benefit of trial. http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/raw-milk-seized-in-athens-georgia/ Guns may very well be next. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 While legal to purchase in South Carolina and not in Georgia, farm fresh milk was intercepted in 2009 at a border crossing and summarily destroyed by Georgia and Federal agents without benefit of trial. http://thebovine.wordpress.com/2009/10/19/raw-milk-seized-in-athens-georgia/ Guns may very well be next. Yeah Jeff, They did it up here between WA & ID with cigarettes... people in WA were driving to the Casinos in ID (on Native American reservation land) taking advantage of the cheaper prices... they actually set up road blocks and initiated searches and confiscated $ thousands before someone had the sense to end it. I love our country, and the freedoms and opportunities it affords us -- but we are systematically being stripped of our rights, and simultaneously anesthetized by 256 channels of mind-numbing drivel (yes, I recognize and appreciate the irony here)... I stopped shouting WAKE UP a long time ago... now it's more like a whisper to those about whom I care... otherwise, go ahead and sleep in blissful ignorance. I'll even help provide the content ; ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Waelder Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'm confused... when and where did all these gun-toting maniacs converge? Maybe you haven't seen this phenomenon in Idaho, Tom, but here in Southern California we had a flurry of demonstrations where thirty or so open carry advocates would descend on a commercial area and stage a mini-event to dramatize their open carry rights. In one particular case they flooded into a Starbucks to the great discomfort of the staff and patrons in the shop. There were no serious incidents associated with these demonstrations. I think everyone - both the demonstrators and other patrons - were careful to avoid saying or doing anything provocative. Still, it's a confrontational sort of demonstration. I was voicing my disquiet with that sort of event. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Maybe you haven't seen this phenomenon in Idaho, Tom, but here in Southern California we had a flurry of demonstrations where thirty or so open carry advocates would descend on a commercial area and stage a mini-event to dramatize their open carry rights. In one particular case they flooded into a Starbucks to the great discomfort of the staff and patrons in the shop. There were no serious incidents associated with these demonstrations. I think everyone - both the demonstrators and other patrons - were careful to avoid saying or doing anything provocative. Still, it's a confrontational sort of demonstration. I was voicing my disquiet with that sort of event. David David, I had no idea that was going on... I can understand your distaste for such a display (safe, warranted, or otherwise)... I can't say I'd disagree with you on that one... unfortunately, there will always be extremes on either end of the spectrum... for a long time in Coeur d'Alene, we had to put up with White Supremacists marching down the middle of the [main downtown] street in broad daylight once a year -- simply because they have the constitutional right to assemble -- it would attract all kinds of attention from the national media on down... eventually, the good people of Coeur d'Alene figured out that the less attention these morons got, the more silly they appeared, so eventually we all decided just to stay home... let them have ther silly parade -- in a ghost town. There might be footage of it somewhere online -- it'd almost be comical if it wasn't such a sad commentary on the ignorance of which people are so capable. In any case, their stupid little parade was usually followed by a 'human rights day' in which the town would show its true colors. BTW, this racist group that once plagued our town was eventually run out of town and their compound was burned to the ground -- they got into some legal trouble involving harassment (and yes, firearms were involved)... but justice prevailed and the idiots finally had to leave town. I bet if Starbucks got creative, they could effectively diffuse these types of situations while maintaining their loyal customer base. Offer everyone else a free cup o joe at a later date, shuffle everyone out, and crank up the Abba to about 120 dB. I don't know too many gun-toting extremists who could handle that. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 I'm going to guess that no one dared rob the Starbucks while they were there. Here's a radical concept. Why don't we hold lawbreakers accountable for crimes, rather than the inannimate implements they employ? Otherwise we should ban automobiles, too. Compare the preventable hiway death figures with gun deaths and it's the start of a whole new discussion. Why should that be any different? Most of these deaths are preventable if we remove their automobiles from the streets of America. Or, could the solution possibly be to hold human beings accountable for their actions rather than trying to find scapegoats for every misdeed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 well said John : ) +11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted January 2, 2012 Report Share Posted January 2, 2012 Otherwise we should ban automobiles, too. Compare the preventable hiway death figures with gun deaths and it's the start of a whole new discussion. Why should that be any different? Most of these deaths are preventable if we remove their automobiles from the streets of America. We should also ban alcohol. Hey, I know. How about a constitutional amendment? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 " Why don't we hold lawbreakers accountable for crimes " (not rhetorical!) Instead states change the laws to try to make the "law abiding citizens" criminals, by outlawing their constitutional rights... Notice what the law abiding citizens do?? They obey the new laws, while trying to get them removed by the courts. The bad guys, criminals, however, would just add the new laws to the other ones they continue breaking. here is an example, ripped from today's headlines about the ex-GI who murdered someone, and fled into Mt. Rainier National Park, where he also killed a park ranger who tried to stop him. This former soldier was said to suffer PTSD and be suicidal in recent months. " The shooting renewed debate about a federal law that made it legal for people to take loaded weapons into national parks. The 2010 law made possession of firearms subject to state gun laws... Bill Wade, the outgoing chair of the Coalition of National Park Service Retirees, said Congress should be regretting its decision. Why? if it were illegal, do you think he would have dropped them off somewhere, and not carried his weapons with him anyway?? seriously?? (rhetorical's included) "The many congressmen and senators that voted for the legislation that allowed loaded weapons to be brought into the parks ought to be feeling pretty bad right now," said Wade... Wade called Sunday's fatal shooting [of the park ranger] a tragedy that could have been prevented. Barnes was carrying the weapons because he was a criminal, and a sick person, and not just because they were legal to carry... even if illegal, he still would have carried those firearms. Calls and emails to the National Rifle Association requesting comment were not immediately returned on Monday. (The NRA being closed for the Holiday) ...The NRA said media fears of gun violence in parks were unlikely to be realized, the NRA wrote in a statement about the law after it went into effect. "The new law affects firearms possession, not use," it said... The group pushed for the law saying people have a right to defend themselves against park animals and other people. " Like Barnes! He was sick, he was already a criminal, and he was having a bad day. As someone commented: " I don't think any legislation about guns in national parks really would have any bearing here. He had already killed and was trying to escape into the park, not stopping for officials. I don't think he bothered to check the gun laws. " http://www.cbsnews.c...snow/?tag=stack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 On a sadly related note a friends son was shot & killed today in an attempted robbery in his store here in a rural section of Florida. The robbers description has been circulated in the community where it happened. The authoritys have said (off the record) that for his sake he better hope they find him 1st because if the locals find him there is no chance he'll be found alive. Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afewmoreyears Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 Well, the guys "parading around with their firearms as a demonstration" are many of the same guys I see at the gun range twice a week, Dads and Grandpas, mothers and kids..following every rule of gun ownership, paying close attention to the laws regarding ownership and rights... These "guys" are mostly persons which are firearms sportsmen and sportswoman... people that actually care not about parading, but about their rights as Americans, like it or not... They are hobbyists, people who enjoy shooting and the concept of self protection. And care again about their right to protect themselves. Are a few strange, probably, but welcome to America... As for "Poor judgement?" These guys know more about guns, types, parts, repairs and the like than you can imagine.... and many are formerly trained.... There are a TON of classes on many types of safety and styles of shooting.... Most I would bet have ample training.. I myself had ample in class and on range training for my concealed carry license.. (no longer required in my state). Many of these poor judgement guys are former military, the same guys that really know about " personal safety".... yours as an American for a starter...... A very bad outcome will not arise out of a situation from one of these guys... but, if a "situation" breaks out ,there or nearby, I would bet it was the untrained and unaware persons on the other side of the issue.... I'll tell you one thing, the guys parading around , being trained, know exactly when and how a situation where a person actually fires a weapon in self defense has the right to do so.... and what situations it is forbidden to do so... Which is almost EVERY situation.... They are the last persons you should worry about... They seem aggressive to you because they are upset..... I for one understand that feeling.... every time I cross the border into Calif. for work.... The people you should worry about are the throngs of persons carrying firearms untrained, unaware and uncaring of fellow humans.... They are the same people I as a human am worried about.... the difference, they don't care about rights or laws.... your life or mine.... The guys in the "parade"?, they care... Horrible story in Florida.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Blankenship Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 On tonight's evening news here were two gun-related stories. One was the story of a car that drove into a pond. The driver escaped but there were three kids left trapped inside. Passersby jumped in to try to rescue the kids but couldn't get the doors or windows open. One of the helpers pulled a gun and shot out a window. They rescued the kids. In another story, new year's eve aerial gunfire damaged a car, broke a kid's window, and hit the hand of a child sitting in a stroller. This is just a guess, but I'd bet money that the gun in the first story was legally owned by a conscientious citizen and the guns in the second story, less likely so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 " the story of a car that drove into a pond. " saw that story, but missed the gun detail... a lot of the media avoids including positive "gun" stories. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 " the story of a car that drove into a pond. " saw that story, but missed the gun detail... a lot of the media avoids including positive "gun" stories. We don't want anyone getting the idea that citizens possesing firearms is a good thing... ever. An unarmed society is a controllable society. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Sjostrom Posted January 3, 2012 Report Share Posted January 3, 2012 We don't want anyone getting the idea that citizens possesing firearms is a good thing... ever. An unarmed society is a controllable society. ~tt Cus then they can't fight back Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marc Wielage Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 So, how do you explain lower gun related crimes in countries with stricter gun laws? It's interesting to note the murder rate statistics around the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate Either per capita or in total numbers, surprisingly, the U.S. is nowhere near the highest on the list. Crime rates and murder rates are not necessarily connected to strict gun laws. I personally stopped being pro gun after John Lennon's murder in 1980, but I don't have a problem with anybody who wants to keep a gun -- as long as they keep it away from me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 It has been said that "if guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns". well.... " City and federal authorities in Washington, D.C., which has some of the toughest gun control laws in the nation, reinforced that point this month. Police announced a roundup of suspects, guns and illegal drugs that culminated a months-long undercover operation in Washington. Among weapons confiscated from criminals were automatic rifles and handguns with silencers. A total of 161 firearms were seized. One suspect had offered to sell undercover agents hand grenades and a rocket launcher. Clearly, the criminal element in Washington is well armed. The city's strict gun laws don't seem to have even slowed down violent thugs. Meanwhile, law-abiding citizens who want to protect themselves, their families and their homes are told they can own guns only under narrow restrictions " http://www.advertiser-tribune.com/page/content.detail/id/543096/Outlaws-do-have-guns--so-should-citizens.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Here's another one for the pro-gun side... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/04/mom-kills-intruder_n_1183336.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 4, 2012 Report Share Posted January 4, 2012 Here's another one for the pro-gun side... http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/01/04/mom-kills-intruder_n_1183336.html +11 Exactly what I'm talking about -- good for her! Sad, that her conscious and memory now have the added scars of this horrible incident, but she and her infant are otherwise unscathed, and there's one less asshole on the planet wasting precious resources, not to mention a few others who might think twice before they violate someone else's rights. This is a perfect case in point for why citizens should always have the right to bear arms. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laurence Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 This is a perfect case in point for why citizens should always have the right to bear arms. I don't disagree. And then there's the other side of the story... http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 from the link above (08.01.08): "...Last year, a study conducted by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found more than 1.7 million children live in homes with loaded and unlocked guns..." "Read more: http://www.momlogic.com/2008/08/protect_your_kids_from_guns.php#ixzz1iXUrDYzU" While devastatingly sad, these stories are exceptions (even based on the statistics quoted within the article) and it goes to show that even stupid people have the right to own firearms. What I don't understand is why the Center for Disease Control and Prevention is doing a study on firearms. Would it be a stretch to assume they're implying that gun ownership is a disease? In any case, it's been a heated topic for decades, with truths (and twisted variations thereof) on both sides... ultimately, only time will tell how capable we (the human race) are of evolving with respect to this very charged subject. As long as insane people possess weapons, I think it's only wise for (at least as many) sane people to follow suit. ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Toline Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 "As long as insane people possess weapons, I think it's only wise for (at least as many) sane people to follow suit." +10 Eric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat Slater Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 So what's a visitor to your "home of the brave" meant to do? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Babb Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 So what's a visitor to your "home of the brave" meant to do? Just make sure you eat right and buckle your seatbelt. Gun violence is a sensational issue. It splashes across the news whenever anything happens. I'm afraid it's not sexy to have a national headline for each of the 600,000 people who die from heart disease. I've owned guns my whole life. I got my first shotgun from my dad when I was 10. I've never had to use them in self defense. Never been in a situation (in my personal life) where I wish I'd brought one with me. Come on over. Have fun. Stay away from places where you'll run into trouble. Simple. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taylormadeaudio Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 So what's a visitor to your "home of the brave" meant to do? Pat, Are you planning a visit, and want advice as to how to avoid becoming a statistic? A lot of it depends on the locales one plans on visiting. Just like anywhere on Earth, there are places here (in the US) that are inherently more dangerous than others -- and demographics are a factor as well: a white guy walking down the street in South Central L.A. wearing a confederate flag hat and t-shirt will likely become a statistic -- as would a skinny 100# blonde chick in a bikini walking around the streets of TJ (Mexico) at night. The same rules for safe travel apply regardless of ones destination. Just be smart, informed, aware, flexible... it definitely helps to speak the language -- you've got that part down ; ) ~tt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiomprd Posted January 5, 2012 Report Share Posted January 5, 2012 The gun control crowd is mighty quiet today...Anti-Gun = Pro-Criminal http://latimesblogs....m-intruder.html On the phone with 911 for 20 minutes and no cops are on the scene yet? If that's not an argument for gun ownership I don't know what is. of course there are firearms tragedies, but life sucks! " Angelo Bowers, a stand-up comedian and actor who performed in Los Angeles comedy clubs, was killed in a late-night Hollywood traffic collision that police say was caused by a drunk driver... The driver caused two collisions just minutes apart, involving different vehicles on the streets of Hollywood. The second collision killed Bowers and seriously injured a friend in the car with him, fellow comedian Josh Adam Meyers, " http://latimesblogs....unk-driver.html or even this: " Two people were wounded on the Venice Boardwalk in an apparent gang-related attack that rocked the popular destination with multiple gunshots, police said Wednesday night... The shooting at Ocean Walk Front and Market Street occurred shortly before 6:30 p.m., the Los Angeles Police Department said. Crowds of people had flocked to the beach and boardwalk Wednesday amid unseasonable warm weather.In April, the LAPD beefed up patrols along the boardwalk after a spate of violent confrontations... The area along the boardwalk -- with its eclectic mix of tourists, street performers and bohemians -- is among the most popular visitor destinations in the Los Angeles region. Authorities have acknowledged that policing the massive and sometimes unruly crowds is a challenge. " http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2012/01/venice-boardwalk-gang-shooting.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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