Chefs, chef's outfits, chefcetera

[Conley vd Westhuizen]

Hiding lavs on chefs and other schmos with aprons

[MatthewFreedAudio]

Yes?

[JDirckze]

Someone on this board, was it Peter Mega? Not sure, but they drilled holes through the big black plastic chef button for COS11s to poke through. I'm sure there are plenty of other tricks that work too...

[Conley vd Westhuizen]

Hi there! I am a new poster, thanks to all, this is a great resource! (Apologies if the formatting isn't great - trying to get this done on a BB)

I will be co-mixing the South African version of a reality show about chefs. The show requires a small army of people on wires, and most of those people will be wearing either chef's jackets (thick, starchy, high collars) or aprons, which have been cause for headache in the past (rubbing and bashing against the clothing underneath).

The sheer number of talent that will need micing means that we won't have much time to make adjustments to individual lavs and the fact that our budget has been blown on a bunch of 788's and a large-ish console means that we can't get any tiny white b6's to poke out of any button holes. For the most part we have black b3's and cos-11's to work with.

Placing the lav in the collar has proven okay (slightly neckish sounding) while the chef is standing, but, being chefs who enjoy fine cuisine and are therefore not necessarily the trimmest of folk , the moment they look down for whatever reason the mic gets muffled.

As for the relatively rigid aprons, securing the material to the clothing beneath has worked, but can be time and tape consuming and needs adjusting from time to time. Have not had much luck sticking the lav to the apron itself as they generally produce quite a bit of noise themselves.

Any advice on dealing with these outfits would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks in advance...

Conley

[Conley vd Westhuizen]

Someone on this board, was it Peter Mega? Not sure, but they drilled holes through the big black plastic chef button for COS11s to poke through. I'm sure there are plenty of other tricks that work too...

Thanks Dirk! Looks like the chefs will be wearing their own jackets and are not having any chopping, cutting or drilling from the audio dept. Am currently negotiating for production jackets that we can maim and modify to our hearts' content, but this is an uphill battle!

[JDirckze]

Are you guys predominantly shooting indoors? If so, I would just hide the B3's/COS11's "in plain sight". I don't mind seeing a tiny black mic head sticking out of a button hole if it's a choice between that and shitty sounding lavs...

[Pat Slater]

Rode pin-mic is a neat way of placing a microphone in shot with no lead in view.

[Den Nic]

Seems to be the norm to have them in plain site with a clip on the cooking shows I've watched, but I don't watch a whole lot. If it's no audience and 1 or 2 people then they're hidden (or boomed) but with audiences and 3+ I see lavs mics in plain view. Just might observations, sorry I can't really help much with the micing, good luck!

[Conley vd Westhuizen]

Are you guys predominantly shooting indoors? If so, I would just hide the B3's/COS11's "in plain sight". I don't mind seeing a tiny black mic head sticking out of a button hole if it's a choice between that and shitty sounding lavs...

Thanks duder, will work on our director for exposing the lavs for the indoor stuff.

They had specified a "perfect crime" scenario where absolutely no trace of our work is visible, but I think the time saving and ultimately crispier audio will be worth it.

[Conley vd Westhuizen]

Thanks for all the advice gents...

Reckon the pin mic is generally a good idea for future shoots, I doubt I'll be able to squeeze the sheer no's out of our budget on this shoot though..

As far as I understand, although we will have two roving booms, they aren't an option for much of the time because they'll be boning the jib shots. Bummer.

[soundslikejustin]

One mixer I work with who previously worked on a very similar show showed me his collection of chef's buttons. They are drilled (similar to what I assume Peter Mega has done) and in no way harm the chef's whites, as the buttons in those things are not stitched to the shirt. Just swap out one of their buttons (don't lose it!) with one of your pre-drilled out ones and hold the mic in the button with some tac. It looks great, but more importantly sounds perfectly clean. If you've got a drill press you can do them yourself pretty easy. I've made a few for a cooking MasterClass that we do every year here in Australia and they work great, the chefs' also think they're pretty cool!

[greg sextro]

oscar tech lavs - they make a model similar to the b6 for a fraction of the price.

with chefs jackets - behind the button w white on white or black on black tends to work great.

[Peter Mega]

Hi,

Chef jackets are a hassle but as suggested by JDirckze, I modified the buttons to take COS11.

The buttons are pretty tricky to drill but they work perfectly with no rustle at all. (see photo, beige mic in black button for demo purposes)

Replace the original button with your button with the mic in it.

Aim the mic at the mouth, kind of diagonal since the buttons are offset in the jackets and 2nd row down seems to work best.

Tape the back of the flat disc part to the jacket on the inside and another bit of tape down the cable a little for another anchor.

If your working outdoors, you can shove a bit of black (or white if using white buttons) foam in the hole for some wind protection.

The buttons are easy to buy from catering suppliers in packs of ten. Some shops even have other colours.

Some chef jackets have permanently sewn in buttons and if you come accross those there's not alot of option but to expose the mic and have it hidden in shot. You still get some rustle this way but its better than buried under the thick starchy material or have it up near the throat which sounds too throaty.

For your aprons, get some pipe cleaners (AKA Chennile sticks) and fold them over, twist to strengthen and gaffer tape them onto the top of the apron. Bend them out to form a curved bit where you can mount the mic. The pipe cleaner will hold the apron off the clothing and creat a perfect space for the mic.

If done properly, you will get excellent results. I've been working on two different cooking shows for the last 3 years and have had great success.

If you dont get what I mean about the aprons, let me know and I'll try to get some photos.

Cheers

Peter Mega

PS. soundslikejustin, if you're referring to Thomo's chef butons, I sold them to him!!

[Conley vd Westhuizen]

One mixer I work with who previously worked on a very similar show showed me his collection of chef's buttons. They are drilled (similar to what I assume Peter Mega has done) and in no way harm the chef's whites, as the buttons in those things are not stitched to the shirt. Just swap out one of their buttons (don't lose it!) with one of your pre-drilled out ones and hold the mic in the button with some tac. It looks great, but more importantly sounds perfectly clean. If you've got a drill press you can do them yourself pretty easy. I've made a few for a cooking MasterClass that we do every year here in Australia and they work great, the chefs' also think they're pretty cool!

I like this. Dude, I think you have shown me the way of the future!

[Conley vd Westhuizen]

Hi,

Chef jackets are a hassle but as suggested by JDirckze, I modified the buttons to take COS11.

The buttons are pretty tricky to drill but they work perfectly with no rustle at all. (see photo, beige mic in black button for demo purposes)

Replace the original button with your button with the mic in it.

Aim the mic at the mouth, kind of diagonal since the buttons are offset in the jackets and 2nd row down seems to work best.

Tape the back of the flat disc part to the jacket on the inside and another bit of tape down the cable a little for another anchor.

If your working outdoors, you can shove a bit of black (or white if using white buttons) foam in the hole for some wind protection.

The buttons are easy to buy from catering suppliers in packs of ten. Some shops even have other colours.

Some chef jackets have permanently sewn in buttons and if you come accross those there's not alot of option but to expose the mic and have it hidden in shot. You still get some rustle this way but its better than buried under the thick starchy material or have it up near the throat which sounds too throaty.

For your aprons, get some pipe cleaners (AKA Chennile sticks) and fold them over, twist to strengthen and gaffer tape them onto the top of the apron. Bend them out to form a curved bit where you can mount the mic. The pipe cleaner will hold the apron off the clothing and creat a perfect space for the mic.

If done properly, you will get excellent results. I've been working on two different cooking shows for the last 3 years and have had great success.

If you dont get what I mean about the aprons, let me know and I'll try to get some photos.

Cheers

Peter Mega

PS. soundslikejustin, if you're referring to Thomo's chef butons, I sold them to him!!

Peter Mega: walking, talking legend among men!

Thanks a mil, this exceeds anything I was hoping to get out of posting!

If you could I would much appreciate a pic or two of the pipe cleaner rig (also then it's on here for any guys who need this advice in the future).

Again, muchos gracias!

[Wyatt Tuzo]

On top chef, we would always just use a top address mic (b6/cos-11, whichever fit the bill [more often the Sanken] ), thread it through the button hole, and mount it just behind the edge of the button. no drilling necessary.

If the cast member folds the top section of the chef coat over, mount it one higher on the newly formed lapel. Deploy a bumper if needed.

[Jan McL]

This made my day, Mega. Brilliant

Thinkin' outside the button box...

-- Jan

[John Steigerwald]

On top chef, we would always just use a top address mic (b6/cos-11, whichever fit the bill [more often the Sanken] ), thread it through the button hole, and mount it just behind the edge of the button. no drilling necessary.

If the cast member folds the top section of the chef coat over, mount it one higher on the newly formed lapel. Deploy a bumper if needed.

Did this on Kitchen Nightmares as well using B6's.

Gordon never buttons his jacket all the way up, so the flap hid the mic that you couldn't see in the first place.

Worked well on all the other chefs too.

[Rick Reineke]

Some years ago, I was involved with a show with the CIA. (not the gov.) I had some white TR-50s that pretty much dissapeared into the white-chef's uniform.. wasn't totally hidden, nor was it meant to be.

I saw a photo on one of the other forums, where someone had used an ECM-55 with an even bigger black windscreen, about the size of a tennis ball.. low profile? I try to find it and post the pic..

[Marc Wielage]

I agree with Rick above. I just did a 3D restaurant show a few weeks ago. After a discussion with the director (who dislikes visible lavs on actors), I convinced him of the wisdom of using white clips and white TR50 lavs on the cooks' jackets. Worked absolutely great, and were "almost" invisible on screen. Absolutely no way a boom would've worked -- lots of pans hanging from the ceiling, two and sometimes three cameras shooting in every direction, reflective walls, just a nightmare.

In hindsight, I could have just poked a B6 through a tiny hole, but in this environment, I was more worried about potential clothing noise and grease spattering.

BTW, I was shocked at the amount of noise that goes on even in a fairly high-class kitchen. I later did a test for the editor and used iZotope RX2 to sample the background noise (a refrigerator that could not be turned off and some untamable florescents), and improved the intelligibility by at least 50%. The client was totally happy with the sound even before the NR, and it'll work fine for their project.

--Marc W.

[Freeheel]

X3 on Wyatt and John with the Cos 11 through the buttonhole and mounted behind the button. Fast, easy, works - no modification to clothing. I keep 1 white Cos 11 around that gets used almost exclusively on chefs. (Don't do a lot of cooking shows, but that white Cos 11 has saved me on every single one!)

cheers,

Brent C

[Peter Mega]

I'm not sure why some of you think there's modification to the clothes/jackets?

The drilled out button simply replaces the existing button which is removeable. They are plastic studs which come out so they can wash the jackets without buttons.

The drilled out button is extremely quick to mount and slap a bit of tape on the back and away you go. Completey invisible to the camera and even to the eye if there is no attention brought to it.

I have white COS11 too which works well poking through the button hole on the chef jackets which have permanently sewn in buttons but the drilled out buttons work alot better IMO.

Jan McL, glad I could make you smile!!

Conley, thanks for your kind words and I'll try to get some photos of the pipe cleaner rig when possible.

Cheers

Mega

[studiomprd]

" we can't get any tiny white b6's to poke out of any button holes. For the most part we have black b3's and cos-11's to work with. "

well that is their poor decision(s)...they seem to have gone for style over substance. Jumping over dollars to pick up pennies...So, take their mic's and paint them white, (cable too, as needed) and get white foam windscreens (as you cannot paint over where the sound comes in. No apologies, just paint!