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RPSharman

Music video workflow...

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It's nice when they just hand you a prepared file! The problem is when they don't.

I agree, having a lyric sheet and timecodes is mandatory. At least if you know where the choruses are, that helps.

Agreed -- and some production companies don't understand why prep is necessary -- and the charges that incurs.

"Don't you just throw the DAT tape (yes, they sent a DAT for a music video shoot just a couple of months ago) into the machine and hit play? Isn't that all there is to it?"

They sent the lyrics via email but with the version I received on DAT (yes, DAT -- I should have called them back and stipulated they send it on vinyl), had the choruses rearranged. So, I prepped the files for computer playback, made new lyric sheets, and all went smoothly from there.

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DAT??? What is this, 1999?

Steve Deichen and I just had a 3-day shoot that culminated in about 3 or 4 hours of playback. The client originally wanted to just "play a boombox," but we convinced them to use timecode slates, a proper speaker, count-off beeps, and instant cueing. I think they quickly got the point. It was just a :40 second main title theme, so it wasn't rocket science to get it to work, but it's scary that they weren't aware of the need to do it the right way.

The last two playback projects I've done, they were kind of mystified as to why I insisted on a WAV file. "Doesn't everybody just use MP3's?" facepalm.gif

And I'll again praise Courtney's BWF-Widget Pro:

http://www.bwfwidget.com/

Little things like this can save 20 minutes a day (or more), and it's a big convenience for all concerned, especially with the fast cueing, multiple cue points, and so on.

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I learned this week that I am supposed to know exactly what cue to start and when they change, despite not being given any information at all between takes.

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Yeah, we went through that, too. "Just start it on the second chorus. No, I have no idea what timecode it's at or what the words are. Can't you cue it faster?"

Shoot me now...

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Mine was a lot of this

"play from the second verse with a 5 second pre roll"

(go for the shot, and then move the camera a bit after cut)

"ok, PLAYBACK"

(I hit play)

"WHY ARE YOU PLAYING FROM THERE! WERE ON THE FIRST VERSE NOW"

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Yeah, you learn very quickly that the role of the AD is even more important in playback situations, just to keep the sound department one step ahead.

What's all this OCD about TC?? Yeah, shooting film use TC. For cheapshit shot on video, use the Old School method and let the camera mic pick up PB track.

You can, but it's cheapshit. I like the idea of the timecode slate to help out the editor, because I know what it's like to have to read lips and guess where you are in syncing up a song, and I'm sympathetic to post (since I toiled there for more than 20 years).

The other thing from the performer's point of view is that they get into the rhythm of "roll camera, roll playback," then the count-off beeps, and the start of the song. It's easier on them to get into the repetition of exactly where to start, which is vital for dance moves, talent position, lip-syncing, and so on. And a higher-quality audio feed is better for Plural Eyes (or whatever they're using to sync).

No argument, though -- they get what they pay for. Two JBL EONs and a wireless timecode slate is a far cry from just pushing "play" on a boombox. The former, I can guarantee will stay in sync for a 4 minute song.

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DAT??? What is this, 1999?

...

And, ironically, the DAT came from one of the most successful audio houses in town. Maybe the client had stipulated it -- I don't know how it came about. The client gave me the tape and I turned it into a file and made it work.

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cinetj   

Hello everyone,

 

I have some doubts about the prepared track. How do you create this timecode as an audio signal track in protools? In case you send it to a camera, you send it as an audio signal to be decoded as TC in post ou it goes directly on the TC input of the camera?

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Hey guys! I found something that might be helpful regarding Timecode stamping for this topic. its a website called: http://pehrhovey.net/blog/2013/07/el-tee-see-make-smpte-timecode-wav-file/ they offer a free service where you can download a Generated TimeCode.Wav file, so you can drop into your pro tools session for playback.. You can set: FPS, Frames, Bit, Start time, and Duration to be generated. 

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fargone: " Its a music video that would be on MTV and I don't want to pass it up because I want to do it! "

really ?  for sure??  or is it being submitted to MTV..?  This sounds like all the movies that are going to Sundance, etc.

 

and, BTW, I want to produce and direct a big budget, multi Oscar winning movie

 

" so Maybe I did something wrong with spotting the Timecode to 00:59:30:00? "

maybe...

 

 

break a leg!

Edited by studiomprd

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On that note! I've never done Playback before and yesterday I got ask to do playback for a music video next week from a friend of mine. Its a music video that would be on MTV and I don't want to pass it up because I want to do it! Now so far what I've gathered up in about 5 hours of searching and reading forums and articles..

The set up will be:

MacbookPro_ Running Pro Tools 10

Digi 002

Pair of JBLs

On Pro Tools Session:

Track 1 Stereo - (Feed to JBLs A Monitor)

Track 2 Stereo - (Feed to JBLs B Monitor)

Track 3 Mono Mix - (Feed to Lectros Hop to CAM_L-CH) AUDIO REFERENCE!

Track 4 Time Code - (Feed to CAM_R-CH and Comtek for Slate)

I do have some questions!

Question 1

Thomas Popp

(Answer) "I use the time code output to a Sennheiser G2 so I can have a wireless timecode hop to the slate. I have had very back luck with comteks for timecode feeds being finicky"

(Question) "When you say Timecode hop to the slate with G2s or Comteks"

Your saying to "attach" the G2 or Comtek to the TS-C it self for continuous timecode feed?

If so I would need a custom cable made..

Mini to 1/4 or Mini to Lemo for that process correct?

Slate Settings:

Rec Run

Select Frame: 24

As for the OUTPUT of my Digi002 I could use any 1/4 to Mini for Comtek Tx?

Question 2

Marc Wielage

(Answer) "I recorded for five minutes, then took this file and loaded it into Pro Tools and spotted it into a session. Then, I dropped in the music file supplied by the client, lining up the first note precisely at Hour 1"

(Question) " I downloaded a generated timecode.wav at 24F, 48k/24, 00:59:30:00 for 5 Mins as well. I then also loaded it into a pro tools session with my audio track. Note: I already did the process of Mapping my track to the correct tempo and "Syncing" The Downbeat of my Audio track with the beginning of the TIMECODE Track. When I go to spot the Timecode

track to 00:59:30:00 its goes unbelievably off my screen"

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2014-09-05 at 6.40.53 AM.png

Its soo off you cant even see it!!!! so Maybe I did something wrong with spotting the Timecode to 00:59:30:00?

This is how it looks when I spot it too 01:00:00:00

attachicon.gifScreen Shot 2014-09-05 at 6.45.14 AM.png

Blue = Left & Right Monitor Mix

Yellow = Mono Mix to CAM

Red = Time Code

.... Where did I go Wrong?

Also I want to say Thank! all you guys for all the AMAZING FEED in this topic!

Looks like your session start time is 1:00:00, but you spotted your region to a spot in the timeline that doesn't exist. Change your session start time if you want pt time code to match your audio ltc.

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I just did a budget music video with a far simpler setup, that worked very well.  I used Wavesaur, a PC freeware audio editor for playback, and used a very cheap USB interface to send a mono audio mix to my PA mixer and TC (from an audio track in Wavesaur) to a Comtek TX that transmitted to a Comtek RX taped to the back of a TC slate in "read" mode.  I like setting up the playback tracks myself, so I can make sure the TC rolls over  01:00:00:00 on the downbeat, and the track has count off beeps in the correct tempo.   I made a mono mix of the song in my studio, and played it out of the DAW with LTC and re-recorded that on one of my field recorders, with the TC split between the recorder's TC input (metadata TC) and an audio input (LTC).  We also sent a scratch feed to the camera via G2 type wireless.  One very important thing for the playback op to get is a lyric sheet, so you can mark up your track as to where the verses and choruses are--very helpful for when they want to pick up a specific part of the song.  

 

philp

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Hey! Thank you Wandering Ear your solution it solved my small problem.. Two Thumbs up for you for making this thread stronger buddy! 

Also, I got the TS-C to read my Timecode stamp out of pro tools via R1a hop to TS-C for continuous TC read out.. 

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On Pro Tools Session:

Track 1 Stereo -  (Feed to JBLs A Monitor)

Track 2 Stereo -  (Feed to JBLs B Monitor)

 

I don't think stereo is necessary -- in fact, you can argue that stereo is a distraction on set. Just make good clean mono. Make sure they can still hear the vocals. Typically, the phantom center vocals pop up 3dB when stereo is summed to mono, but that shouldn't be a problem. I just use ch. 1 - mono music, ch. 2 - audio timecode (to send to TC slate), and embedded TC that matches the ch. 2 TC in the file. I generally play it back on a cheap netbook using Courtney Goodin's BWF-Widget Pro. A pal of mine took over a music video playback for which I was unavailable, and he played it back on a Fostex FR-2LE with no problem. 

 

I think it's easier to cue it up in a DAW, particularly if you've got the ability to drop in markers and quickly jump to them. Having a wireless feed to timecode slate is pretty much mandatory, and having a wireless music-only feed to camera is nice to have but not 100% mandatory.

 

Phil Perkins has excellent advice above. Don't disrespect The Senator -- he can be cranky, but I'd bet he's forgotten more than most people will ever know about sound.

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fargone: " I'm pretty sure I said what I said..."

actually, sonny, I'm completely certain you said what you said,  but how do you know it is actually going to be shown on MTV ??

I mean, kid, if it is really going to be shown on MTV, then of course you should do it.

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I dunno, Al, The Senator makes sense to me. He's right in that there are people who solicit crewmembers and tell them, "we're going to Sundance!" To which I usually ask, "where's my plane ticket, and what hotel will we be at? And when do we eat?" What they really mean is, "we're going to submit to Sundance," along with 10,000 other films submitted, but only 60 films actually get screened. 

 

You can submit a music video to MTV, but it's not going to get aired unless there's lots of promotion, money, advertising, and connections are involved. I've worked on at least 350-400 music video projects in my time, most of which did get aired, but they involved established artists with major label contracts. I know cases where they shot the video on Saturday/Sunday, we did the telecine on Monday, they edited Tuesday-Wednesday, mixed on Thursday, and shipped the master on Friday and it was on the air Friday night. (I think that was a Fleetwood Mac video.) The music industry today is not what it used to be; I don't even think they shoot 10% of the number of music videos we used to do in the 1980s. 

 

To Nicholas: we mean no criticism, but lower your expectations unless you know who you're dealing with. A lot of times, these things wind up on YouTube & Vimeo and a few demo reels, but they don't get a lot of exposure. Make sure you get paid at the end of the shoot. And do a workflow test if at all possible to make sure everything will sync up correctly. 

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Jan McL   

Part of doing well in this business is learning what to ignore and what to embrace. ...That, and not to take things too personally.

 

+100

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fargone: " Yes the producer told me so.. "

they always say stuff like that.

If you know the producer personally (like a friend or worked with them before) then if they tell you something you can take it as said. Otherwise take it on advisement

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