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Tips and tricks for recording interior car dialog?


OneLouder

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Talent worn lavs sound great, but packs are low, or if stashed, opens up other pains in the ass... Seat belts wreak havoc as well as abrupt head turns and body movement of all things inside the car.... you would think it is better, but in most cases, it's worse...

I laugh every time I see a contemporary show, and neither the driver nor the passenger are wearing seatbelts! One of the few I've seen recently where they did wear seatbelts and the car interiors appeared (to me) to be production sound was Homeland. Great show, very well-recorded throughout.

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Also. For a cub microphone, the most strategic placement of the sound source is anywhere from 0degree (horizontally) to 90degree (vertically) in the direction of the heart shaped pickup pattern diagram right? How do you typically place your mic to get best result of subject?

Yeah, the polar pattern is actually printed on top of the mike. I haven't had a problem fixing it to a flat surface and getting the pickup aimed at the subject.

I'm curious how many people use two CUB-01's in the front of the car (for driver and passenger), vs. trying to cover two people with one mike. The last time I did this, I used two and rode levels, and it came out OK for me -- windows up. I dread the day I have to deal with windows down.

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Yeah, the polar pattern is actually printed on top of the mike. I haven't had a problem fixing it to a flat surface and getting the pickup aimed at the subject.

I'm curious how many people use two CUB-01's in the front of the car (for driver and passenger), vs. trying to cover two people with one mike. The last time I did this, I used two and rode levels, and it came out OK for me -- windows up. I dread the day I have to deal with windows down.

I have used just one Marc, but it wasn't by choice [trying not to have flashbacks to that horrible day as a type this...ohm]. One of the Cubs died mid-take.

Bottom line, it was fine. Adjusted the mic position to cover both. Just fine. The two talkers were facing the middle (the car was stationary thank Dog). Wasn't quite as "on" for either as I would have preferred, but they were clearly "there".

Both windows were open (two cameras, cross-shooting as we had five roll-to locations for our 9-page day), and there was a very windy rain front coming in. It was a five-bag event for the tent. Even with the supplied wind screens and some 4-by's strategically placed, got the occasional wind boff as the wind shifted direction, but we were lucky, the dialog was clean of it.

I have some fake fur I'm gonna use to make some more substantial Cub-1 wind protection over winter break.

Car rigs have become my personal mission to deal with elegantly these last two years. Gettin' there, but they still give me chills.

-- Jan

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Car rigs have become my personal mission to deal with elegantly these last two years. Gettin' there, but they still give me chills.

-- Jan

Lofty goals you have set for yourself. "Car Rigs" and "Elegant" rarely appear in the same sentence. Good luck.

All kidding aside, I like to try and do car rigs as elegantly (and simply) as possible and we do try and do all our mounting and cabling as cleanly and securely as possible. It is getting more and more difficult with the rigs that people are dreaming up --- it's not just windows down or up anymore, it is pulling doors off, cutting cars in half, cutting a hole in the roof to mount a camera... it goes on and on. Once the "insert" car or whatever you want to call the place the actors are going to sit and talk is all prepared, the fun begins. Often the "car" has been prepared the way they used to be when car stuff was all done PROCESS (rear projection) stationary on a sound stage --- not really appropriate to tow around active city streets!

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Liken this request for information to someone saying to a surgeon - 'I'd like to try doing cosmetic surgery - please tell me how you do this procedure' so I can side step the years of learning and experience to learn your trade as there can't be much to do what you do.

I was just asking for tips and opinions that people on this forum seem happy to give. Isn't that the point of this forum?

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Lofty goals you have set for yourself. "Car Rigs" and "Elegant" rarely appear in the same sentence. Good luck.

All kidding aside, I like to try and do car rigs as elegantly (and simply) as possible and we do try and do all our mounting and cabling as cleanly and securely as possible. It is getting more and more difficult with the rigs that people are dreaming up --- it's not just windows down or up anymore, it is pulling doors off, cutting cars in half, cutting a hole in the roof to mount a camera... it goes on and on. Once the "insert" car or whatever you want to call the place the actors are going to sit and talk is all prepared, the fun begins. Often the "car" has been prepared the way they used to be when car stuff was all done PROCESS (rear projection) stationary on a sound stage --- not really appropriate to tow around active city streets!

Ha. Yes. I may be the first person ever to have said that sentence.

Have successfully gotten an additional man on board for pre-rigging cars when time is of the essence (when isn't it?), which includes keeping an eye on those who would inadvertently screw us in the setup process.

-- Jan

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Probably the best I've gotten is with a Schoeps with a GVC swivel. I wrapped the mic in a thin layer of foam and tucked it behind the visor. It wasn't as good once the car was moving since it was, unfortunately, a really noisy vehicle. It was the automotive equivalent of choosing an exterior location near the airport.

The MK4 capsule would work better than the MK41 if you're covering both people. I've also sometimes augumented it with a Schoeps for the back seat denizens.

With a 'Vette, one time I planted lavs on the visors which are positioned thankfully close to the occupants -- one mic on each side with one in the middle for Justin (Justin Case). It soundeed great until the car hit 60.

NOTE: once a rag top 'Vette hits 60+ the top ROARS! Ugh!

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I sometimes use plastic puddy knives to wedge into the dash, headboard, rearview mirror or

wherever, to support transmitters, microphones, cables etc.

They are fairly non-invasive and don't marr, scratch or otherwise ruin vehicle interiors.

Also carry a little rubbing alcohol or Windex to clean off the Armor All crap that will

be on everything, preventing the best tape's from sticking. (This has been said before, but bears repeating :~)

As Jan McL intimates, pre-rig or be the first department in the car !post-262-0-90079300-1327359391.jpg

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I've gotten good dialogue in a "free-driving" situation (low budget) shoot by taping an MKH-416 to each side of the console aimed up at the talent, and each of them wired, running to a stereo recorder. Lavs panned left, booms panned right. Levels set conservatively, hit record as they drove away. It sounds like they're in a car, but shouldn't it?

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I'm also surprised to read that many of you employ two micing methods for a single shot. If I were an AD watching a sound crew rig a car being towed, and saw that they were planting mics and wiring the talent, I would think I was working with a sound crew that didn't have a clear plan about how to capture the sound for the shot we're doing. Just my opinion.

Rich Van Dyke

As you know, I am not generally a fan of multiple techniques for the same shot/rig, but that said, once the AD you mention has seen this done enough times (from shoots where the word has gone out to the Sound Dept. --- everybody gets wired), I don't think it will reflect on the department's professionalism.

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Today we had a little scene in a travelling car. The camera as hand held in the car, The actress had to sing in the car to a playback, while the original singer was on the rear seat poking her head behind the main actress head... you know what i mean (I hope) Anyway...

Here are the pics:

The travelling car rig.

Portable antenna rig, just an aluminium square pole with holes to screw the antennas with a couple of wing nuts.

Sanken CUB in place on the centre console, plugged to a Lectro plug,

Going portable.

The hero car was following from a decent distance. No Drop outs, I start to get thin in reception, I just ask to get closer to the vehicle.

IFB set up for following vehicle. JUst plugging the IFB into the AUX input of the car stereo. Continuity, AD and whoever is in the car they all the hear the program.

As per putting bugs to actors and using other mics as well, as long as we don't interfere and slow down the production, I don't see why not. Radios in actors while driving though... I find the seatbelt make the bugs useless.

post-3017-0-44899100-1327566827.jpg

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post-3017-0-89429700-1327566985.jpg

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post-3017-0-91453800-1327567119.jpg

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RVD

"I'm also surprised to read that many of you employ two micing methods for a single shot. If I were an AD watching a sound crew rig a car being towed, and saw that they were planting mics and wiring the talent, I would think I was working with a sound crew that didn't have a clear plan about how to capture the sound for the shot we're doing. Just my opinion."

Goodness,

If an AD is standing there worrying about how the sound dept. is dealing with their job, I would be worried about the AD... ;) to hell with their opinions... or their inner thoughts...

But really, in all fairness, hell, sound persons everywhere tackle their little puzzle however they do it.. If that means someone had dialog going into the car and were wired.... and the vehicle needed lavs planted in the front .. who's to really say that that method or any other is or may be wrong for any given shot... who knows...

I would say, try different things, be creative, screw what the AD thinks and get your sound any way your brain tells you to get it.. 1 mic, 2 mics or 4....

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IN "The Darjeeling Limited" (dir Wes Anderson) sound mixer Pawel Wdowczak and I had a task.

The scene was Bill Murray in a taxi (old Fiat) rushing to the railway station to catch a train.

4 camera positions pre-rigged into 4 identical taxis. A cam and B cam. However only ONE sound mixer cart.

We were told Bill will simply move from one taxi to another soon as it comes back to base and there will be no time to rig the second (and 3rd and 4th car). It was going to be like a relay race.

I pre-rigged ALL 4 cars with lavs hidden in various places. XLR cables from the hidden lavs (with the PH48 adapter - all TRAMS) were brought to the back (the boot) and left there. A Nagra V was deployed on REC mode as each car rushed away with Bill and a rigged camera. Soon as it got back, we hit the STOP on the Nagra, moved it into the next car boot and hit REC.

That was it. Later we got to know ALL the dialog was used.

This was probably the only time i had it going this way. There have been many other instances of in-car scenes in which i have used a combination of rigged lavs, rigged MKH50s, and body lavs. As Jan says, it's always good to have a two-way approach.

If i have the good fortune of being in a tow vehicle or a follow (or leading vehicle), i use the PSC fleximounts and shark fins with my Lectro Sixpack on my cart. Never had to ADR a line because of RF issues so far.

-vin

The picture is one example of a situation where i did not have the space for the full cart, so it was just the Sixpack strapped on to the top of the tow vehicle.

post-145-0-23631100-1327586727.jpg

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Relative to multiple plans for car rigs, I've had Plan A fail (for whatever reason) enough times that I've been really, really happy equally many times to have had Plan B already in place. Once you start driving...

-- Jan

same here... sometimes the lavs on the actors work best (yes, even with a seatbelt - though, rarely), and sometimes the overhead Schoeps w/GVC's don't sound quite as good for some reason -- 9 times out of 10, I'm glad I had backup -- especially with wireless RF rigs... trying to transmit RF from inside a car to another car (following or leading) is tricky. I've gotten pretty good at it (done a lot of tier 1 features where they didn't want to pay for a proper process trailer) ...but there's always that unforeseen factor that can put a mic out of play last minute -- car rigs are one area I will probably always use multiple mic setups... usually finished way before the other departments, and can stay out of the way -- a little baby sitting is sometimes necessary (to which previous posts allude) but worth it, IMHO. I too would question an AD's "worth" if he/she didn't understand this. Then again, some AD's are more "reactionary" than others... constantly looking for ways to not look bad -- if there's even the slightest possibility that you won't have your mics rigged by the time they walk talent, they start popping veins... I'm always amazed at how much we're able to acomplish basically on other departments' time -- so much so, that it's basically expected at this point. We knew the job was dangerous when we took it, right? : )

~tt

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I find the seatbelt make the bugs useless. [Manel]

...sometimes the lavs on the actors work best (yes, even with a seatbelt - though, rarely), [Tom Taylor]

I've had pretty good success wiring the seatbelt itself. Using a vampire clip, attach the mike directly to the seatbelt. Obviously, this doesn't work if the actor must enter or exit and it only works for camera-in-the-backseat over-the-shoulder angles. But, for those occasions when the stars align just right, it's a good placement and free of rustle or seatbelt noise.

I'm reminded of the story of the Parisian who, hating the look of the Eifel Tower (is that even permissible?), would regularly dine in the restaurant there. It was the one place where he could look out on a view of the city without seeing the tower.

David

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Nice one David,

I like the Eifel Tower story.

Yeah, when the cam's in the back seat... one can usually get some really great sound just like you described -- I have a love/hate relationship with vampire clips (protruding needles always a liability issue with actors) but the seatbelt application is great -- I'll do the same in the headliner sometimes (depending on the car, of course). : )

~tt

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No apology necessary Richard.... I sometimes wonder what someone watching would think watching us REACT to the never ending sequence of events and of changes that go into miking a car rig that they must think we are nuts. But crap happens fast.... you need to think on your toes.... I sometimes have no time to worry about perceptions, I need to get mics out of the shot and sounding good, and if I or my boom op mostly, are forced to look like idiots at times trying to accomplish that, so be it... It's war out there... The cramped quarters magnifies this effect due to everyone working on top of each other... but in the end, I smile when i say.... that worked out pretty good and I am happy with the product... Idiot or not... ::)

So many variables, so many last second lighting and actor changes... so much to deal with..... It's hard to look like you have a plan.... because you try, but seldome get to stick with it... The only plan I have is to end up with good dialog in the end....

I also have not had the best of luck with a cub on the dash, I saw the photo above, and although that does provide for some audio, it has never been the audio I like unless it is overhead, against a nice headliner and in a quiet or standing still vehicle... Too far from the mouth for me... I have had much better luck with the overhead Sanken COS 11s... especially on a trailer or on a moving vehicle... get em close and the audio fat... works for me...

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Please allow me to apologize for the inference that my opinion, in regard to employing multiple mic'in methods in car interiors, reflects on a sound crews professionalism. It is my belief that anyone doing sound work and being paid for it is a professional. What I am guilty of trying to infer was a percieved lack of experience, by an on set observer such as an AD, who's job entails the supervision of all departments on set.

Wether you like or have no respect for AD's is another question entirely, but they are there to report on the crews performance. You've probably heard the term "above the line" in regard to an invisible distinction between the working crew and the producing entity, the "line" starts with the second AD.

I also feel that Jeff's point is well taken, that in today's world of redundancy in regard to recording actors, that an AD seeing a sound crew deploy several microphones in a car interior, would not be percieved as excessive or show a lack of experience.

Of course if we add additional scenarios to the thread's topic, dialogue leading up to the car and in the car, dialogue in the car and then continuing while one actor gets out and then the other, etc. Of course in these circumstances multiple mics would need to be deployed to capture the dialogue of the scene. I felt the original question was in regard to dialogue inside a car's interior, only.

So please try to accept my apology for misguiding the thread, as a majority must rule, the majority here has spoken and I am obviously in the wrong or at the least, in the minority.

I should stick to topics like what my favorite color is........

Sorry,

RVD

Richard,

You're too hard on yourself. I totally understood your point... and it's assertion was warranted (at least IMHO)... I've been called out by 1st AD's way too often to tell, and every now and then, they're right. A perfect case in point would be where the production is waiting on Sound, losing light, and the dialog could easily be looped (I know, I feel strange even saying that, but sometimes it's true) and the Sound crew is trying to reproduce "Gone with the Wind" when the rest of the production is working on "Dukes of Hazard"... adapting to the environment is paramount to our survival -- may not always produce the best results, but lose battle / win war is better than win battle, have everyone hate you and never get hired again.

FWIW, I really enjoy reading your posts... my favorite color is corduroy... kinda boring, I know : )

~tt

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