Tom R

Yeah I hear what you mean about the Fs7, it's frustrating that it could make life easier, I never realised it was 4ch until a few days ago! But regardless of Specs, I have a budget to meet and for that reason the FS5 seemed like the logical choice for me with the Fs7 being about $5000 NZD more... I was originally looking at the Canon C100 MKII which would have been even cheaper and looks like a great cam, but it seems a little outdated now.. The main turning point being it only shoots 8-bit 420, where the Fs5 is full broadcast friendly 10-bit 422 (even at 200fps when the c100 only does 50fps(pal) which is a nice bonus) + the advantages of 4K - hopefully bettered with future firmware updates with raw recording etc... Anyway thats not what we're here to talk about... Also due to the budget, I am now almost definitely thinking of renting/borrowing gear as whatever option I go with it's going to cost more than what I expected and I might as well rent to get the better gear... After reading through everything (determined to make it work) I am thinking either: 1. the zaxcom setup, with a shotgun on camera is a goody (If its not too pricey to even rent) Seems like the whole 'never clip' feature would benefit me hugely and I've seen these used (and worked in post) on many productions at my last job, so I know that could work great, but also know there are a few issues that inevitably occur like people not checking the battery or monitoring and losing 40mins of someones mic... However this is on reality shows where the amount of talent/ZFR's ranges from 8-23 and I have A LOT more time than these guys to be setting up stuff and checking stuff... This also sounds like a good system to keep the rig nice and free'd up. I know you never want to be neglecting your audio - but in this situation theres bound to be moments where I have to focus predominantly on what I'm doing with camera and this system seems like on of the safest - as long as I keep on top of batteries/SD's and monitoring (specifically checking before shooting sequences/scens etc) 2. The bag drop mixer + Sony dual receiver into the MI hot shoe, plus a shotgun - First thing I don't like about this idea is 'dropping' the bag somewhere and leaving on the ground because if I have to track talent if they move away from where we started recording (Should never be stupidly far though) I just don't know if I would feel comfortable leaving tech like that unattended as a lot of this could be in public places etc. I do however like having the free'd up rig and in camera mix (for sync/backup etc) and having your bag with the main audio... Not overly keen on the whole bracketing thing if I can manage to keep the levels low enough on the mixer so they don't peak (and bump up a LITTLE in post if need be) in which case I would prefer to just buy a Tascam unit for a lot cheaper. The thing I'm still struggling to understand (even if it has been briefly explained, and I apologise if so) but with the dual receiver, what do you have in terms of final outputted tracks? If you're saying the shotgun would also plug into the 'mic in' on the RX on the hotshot, then surely that means the two lapels will be mixed into one ch and the shotgun in the other ch, as we all know the camera only record 2 ch - hence the problems... If so, does the dual receiver have the ability to still keep the lapels on seperate channels if plugged into a multichannel recorder in the bag drop situation? If not then that is an issue, not a write off as if the idea is still the safest then I would consider the sacrifice, but to me it seems like an added risk as if one mic ruffles/distorts then both are fucked? 3. Still really like the idea of the Tascam unit mounted underneath camera with 4 inputs (potentially 3 with a dual RX for presenters) from all mic's and the 2ch mixed output into cam for monitoring - Love that idea... It's the same substitution of Tascam in option 2, If I can have the mic's recording at a safe enough (but not too low) level that they generally won't clip unless there is extremely increased levels, in which case I would have all 4 input level dials in front of me tweak if need be. I also have no gear left on ground and atleast I can monitor and hear if something is not right and fix before it becomes a huge problem.. + less SD cards scattered around, just a little bonus. I would just buy a unit like this outright if I went with it. Issues I can see with this setup: a. As people have said, overcomplicated the camera rig with multiple receivers etc... If I was able to use a dual receiver (ideally still with split presenter channels into separate tracks) and then another receiver (whether its dual or not) for the guest talent, then theres a few options I have seen online that don't seem to unreasonable, like this type of thing: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/685141-REG/J_Rod_THE_J_CUBE_The_J_Cube_Accessory_Shoe.html - which in desperate times would still leave a free hotshoe on top for an LED light for night scenes... I know, I know shhh. b. Having the tascam could create issues for mounting onto/from tripod to shoulder rig etc... I'm going into my local today so will give it jam there. In conclusion, I'm siding more with 1 and 2, probably zaxcam if its going to be cheap enough to rent/borrow and be the least stress free so I can worry on shooting (directing is only a secondary input as we're a tight crew all multi tasking) - there is a 'main' director. It sounds like the safest option definitely having each mic recorded to a separate track and the never clip feature, plus my hands are more free of recievers/bags/mixers (bar one receiever for monitoring?) and only have the shotgun plugged into the camera.

Another question... With the sony dual receivers (or any in general) If it was receiving 2 lapel mic's, Is there any way of still recording these mic's separately into the tascam into 2 different channels? Or are they always gonna be mixed in? Maybe using a Y-splitter xlr cable or something? Probably not I'm guessing... I'm full of dreams.

Constantin - Yep definitely going to do this... Cheers Daniel, Sorry if I am missing the point here (highly likely I am)... But when you speak of 'bracketing' is this when the zoom F8 (or other device) is recording audio with a high dynamic range to avoid clipping etc? If so sounds great... I would rather do this and not have a soundy and have to bump up gain to ganged clips in post (as long as they're not too low and doesn't lose quality!) If so, would it be more efficient to have a tascam recorder like the above DR-701D mounted under the camera and have all 4 mic's into this device with 'bracketing' if possible in this type recorder??? Then only be monitoring the 3 lapels on 1 channel of a 2ch output mix into the camera, and shotgun unmonitored on the other channel? (which would also be super handy for post)... It may be a niggle having a few receivers rigged onto camera, but hopefully manageable if tidy? Also if this is the case... I believe some one was saying earlier (Or maybe I read somewhere) that the FS5 can't sync Jam T.O.D. TC?? And TC seems to be the main benefit of the DR-701D (from what I can see) over a cheaper device such as the tascam DR-70D (less than half the price $NZD) which still records 4 channels but no TC... However because of the mixed in cam recording, I could surely easily sync the ISO mic's to the camera audio with pluralise, meaning the TC function is redundant for my situation? And if this is all possible... Does anyone know if it is possible to wire (not mount) the tascam units to a camera like PWX-FS5 so that when you hit record it does so on the tascam unit also? Probably dreaming - I thought so (and still do) but read something earlier about being able to do this on a DSLR camera with an HDMI cable... Thanks I think its bull, a friend of mine says he owns a few dual receivers and they work fine!

Thanks Daniel, JWL & Jamie for the good advice... Thats what I was looking for, and... Hit the nail on the head there! Cheers buddy.. Love the idea of the 701D panned 2ch output mix into camera for monitoring, Thanks!

Cheers Jim, Yeah looks like I may have to go back to the drawing board on this one...

Correct I don't have the audio gear (only the camera) for this very reason of not yet having a sound system in place.. I hear ya people, I hear ya.

Unfortunately because of the nature of the shoot, it's just not really an option at the moment. I understand the reasoning behind hiring someone and see how it would resolve a lot of headaches, but it would be very last resort if theres no other way we can do it. It may sound ignorant but theres valid reasons why we are trying to keep it as a small intimate crew. So for this situation if we say it has to done this way with no soundy... (Feel free to disregard my proposed setups) What would you guys recommend as the ideal setup that will be the easiest to manage, even if it does mean not having 3 people mic'd up with lapels or another slight sacrifice... I also just realised the FS5's multi interface hot shoe allows for an adaptor with an additional two xlr inputs (with controls) but I'm unsure whether you can actual record with more than 2 channels of audio?? I heard theres a way you can do this with a Canon C300 (some type of 'hidden channel(s) but haven't seen it...) Anyway may be the wrong place to be asking about that..

Thanks for the reply.. Yeah it does sound like a lot of work, most probably too much for me when I will be wanting to focus on shooting/directing. Is there any other alternative approaches you would recommend? I was initially looking at having the two main mic's transmitting to a dual receiver then into one channel on the camera and having a boom (rigged onto camera) into the other xlr input. This would essentially be the mic used for guest talent (which could be good if there is multiple people) But as I said above, don't think I can use a dual receiver because of frequency issues, but could possibly have two separate receivers plugged into an adapter and into one channel? Not sure how well this would work and it wouldn't be the greatest having no separation of the mics in different channels for post but would be great to not have to sync later on.. Also if I was using a boom for the guest talent and they were close to the presenters, would there be phasing because of the differing distance of the mic's? Sorry a lot of questions! I feel as if I am going to have to make a sacrifice in some way to make this work... Cheers

Hi there, I am currently trying to figure out the best and most cost effective audio system setup for my 1 man crew doco shoot (Run and gun setup in a sense but not super fast paced) and am keen to get some advice on the best setup suited for my shoot.. Please excuse my lack of knowledge, I come from a post production background and am just moving into doing my own shooting. There are two main presenters who 90% of the time need to be simultaneously mic'd up with lav mics. And there will often be a third person/talent that needs to be mic'd as well but I am using the Sony Fs5 so only have the 2 xlr inputs and would preferably like to have an on camera mic too. Apparently dual receiver would be off the cards for the presenters as they don't work with our frequencies in New Zealand??? So I was thinking it would be perfect to have a system as follows below (if possible): - 3x lav mic's on talent, each with own recorders clipped on their pants etc recording audio/TC to SD cards like the zaxcom systems. - Wireless monitoring of all 3 lav mic's simultaneously for myself... Am I dreaming here? Can you only monitor 1 at a time? If possible what equipment does this require? If I can’t monitor them all simultaneously, then I may need to just plug the two presenter mic’s into the camera and I will need an additional recorder of some sort for the 3rd lav but I would not feel overly comfortable/safe not being able to monitor the guest mic. I also don’t want to over complicate the system. - Then have a top mic plugged into xlr on camera for general sound/atmos/backup and sync zaxcom (or whatever system) mic's to this in post id any TC drift. Is this possible or am I going at it the complete wrong way? If not what is the best/most cost effective solution? I’m aware it could probably solve all my issues having someone else to handle sound for me with a mixer etc.. but due to budget constraints its not really an option. Appreciate all advice. Cheers, Tom