The Immoral Mr Teas

Hi Al, and welcome to JWS You may well end up here with a dozen or so testimonies from people saying they get great results with their Schoeps pair, their MKH pair, their Sanken, their RSM, shotgun front end, omni front end, etc etc etc. It's a wide and variable question to advise on and most opinions are going to be valid in their way - so good luck in advance! Hey, here I am! Personally my MS / MSM rig is variable based around a Schoeps Fig 8 constant (purely because that's what I have) and I concur with haifai that you should leave yourself the choice for variation. Even if you did pick up an 'in one' MS mic like the RSM there is nothing to stop you strapping a different front capsule atop the fig 8 position whenever you wanted to. For ambience type recordings a subcardioid capsule is often popular, as it can be for musical applications. Halfway between the benefits of omni and cardioid. For fx recording of a 'specific subject' rather than soundscape anything from cardioid to short shotgun. As a sound effects editor I rarely use the side aspect of a MS recording for film tracklay however and even more rarely would record fx in MS: I would just dematrix it if necessary and use the mono front end. Broadcast, radio, podcast, music etc as well as ambisonics is a different thing though. I have to think though that as a starting off point for a general MS rig you cannot go wrong with 'cardioid front, fig 8 side' but the best advice is already in the reply above mine - try a few out and decide what suits your needs best Jez Adamson

Had the (X1) Cantar been around in the 1970s we'd all (in England anyway) be making copies out of toilet rolls following Blue Peter instructions ... that was my first thought. (Got to say I was/am impressed by the build quality and design of the F8 however and the F6 looks good for many applications. The ambisonics thing, if everything else works well, could well be a winner for them).

IMO, (the only O which matters!), foley stage acoustics matter far more than any other factor in this scenario. Though I am not sure quite how helpful my O is in this case! Jez

From what you've said I can't object to your choice of the CO-100K : although I've never used one it's been on my 'would like to try' list of mics since it came out. Further 'off grid' recommendations would be a pair of DPA 6060s or 4060s : they are just so useful (and for FX use I recommend the standard microdot termination with DAD XLR adapter and perhaps microdot extension cables. I also like the MKH series for their dependability in adverse conditions (particularly humid) although they're not alone from other choices here. I would definitely go for the newer series of MixPre if going that route (and be mindful of all IronFilm said). Personally, although the size of the 3 is very nice I think the 4 preamps of the 6 would be better (even now that the series II all do 192 as remarked). When you're onto your SECOND pair of CO-100K and want to record quad atmos in Kashmir with the Kashmir preamps ... (or even just the 'budget' kit of 4 DPA6060s ...) Everything else that was said I find quite decent. Although if you have regular sound folk I would run over options for a "lo-no basic kit based around your new FX / music package" for value and compatibility ... Jez

I'd probably keep the F myself ... Jez

Tyler, hi! Everyone else - I think he made it clear that he wants basic kit to dabble with projects yet still hire his regular folk. On the other hand, Tyler, have you asked your regular folk what they think you should get as basic kit / back up? They are by far going to be the best people to recommend what you could use yourself and what they could use beyond their own package to avoid the uncertainty of external hire. I took notice that you are thinking of buying two very expensive and specialised Sanken CO-100K. I've never had the opportunity to use this mic but know what it is ... I probably wouldn't bother recording below 192 with these! But is there any great reason you're looking at this route? I'm a big fan of spaced omni for film atmos myself, and like omnis for many other reasons. But at this level of investment I would be looking at more than two of them probably...! I can see the CO-100K being used for music and very particular effects applications but for a first fx pair? For that money surely you could buy a new pair of more generally useful MKH8040 cardioids and a new pair of DPA 6060s (all of which would have extra life as top quality spares for main shoots...) I would need to know precisely what you're planning to record fx wise before either criticising your choice or recommending an alternative. You have set the bar high for a first purchase ... Jez

If money is no problem just go ahead and get a pair of DPA (Danish Pro Audio - although they're known generally as DPA) omni lavaliers model 4060 - or if you prefer go for the tinier 6060 new model. Many of us have used 4060s as first choice general car ambience mics for many years. There are lower sensitivity / higher 'max SPL' (can take louder sounds) models which are often used for recording more 'car' (especially muscle cars) against ambience - ie located by exhausts, engines etc ... the 4061 is the next model (up or down so to speak). The least sensitive / highest SPL model is the 4062 which is commonly used by those recording Formula One cars etc. For ambience go for the 4060 ... it is more suited to the medium sound levels around the car and is unlikely to overload, although the 4061 for such a purpose wouldn't be out of place either. The main thing is placement and this will take a fair bit of experimentation (even more so for a non recordist). First try packing the mics in a largish mic foam windshield, much larger than the mic itself - up to 'tennis ball' if possible. Put that in a nylon sock. Try behind the wing mirrors. Try on the roof ... try left right roof aerials. If there's too much wind you might have to go for fur windshielding. Although mini fur windshielding (DPA's own or Rycote or Bubblebee) may well work fine (or better). It all depends on conditions. So go ahead and search for past discussions - there is more out there (and here). (Although much is focused on specifics like close miking and particular sounds there will be ideas there for ambient setups). Good luck, Jez

Hi I, for me driving is a lot about listening as I rely upon my ears as much as my eyes to drive (I live in lockdown perhaps half a mile away from Domenic Cummings' parents if that means anything to anyone?! ... about as far again as the Care Home once a BBC building where Kate Adie started her career)... So yeah, I would appreciate the sound of the ambience myself although you seem to be more after the street sound than the car ... so ... It depends somewhat on what you have or want to spend (and what the rest of the equipment is) as to recommendations for actual mics. I would suggest a pair of (omni) lavaliers, packed in foam, for a stereo image. Attached to both wing mirror (or just behind, for some extra wind protection) will give a decent 'car / ambience' ratio. But to get more ambience from car sound try going to the roof. If that is still too much 'car' you could try mounting on aerials (or an aerial type contraption on the roof). The (little I watched of the) video you posted was highly edited / mixed however ... in an ambient fashion. So if you're after that actual sound you will also have to 'do stuff in post' as we say. Although I recommend experimenting a little with a couple of lavalier mics to come up with something you like yourself. You can always switch between positions depending on mood and mix music in if that works better occasionally. If you're interested in specifics of recording vehicles (rather than the ambience of driving) it has been discussed here many times and there is much to be gained from a search. Ambience, however, is 'distant' from the vehicle, either attached and slightly distant or totally separate (and perhaps creatively constructed). Hope this helps

Oddly enough I was just thinking today how I was one of the last rats to jump the good ship RAMPS and belly float to JWS. I do hope, Jeff, that you do keep JWS going as cart one and it doesn't become dissipated in any way - I actually like being able to jump in and out and check topics which might be of interest. I have no idea how facebook works! Indeed - in these pubs-r-closed times I'm trying to keep my lithium footprint minimal and spend more time painting, listening and recording. And I realise catching up on your back catalogue Jeff - watched The Natural for the first time the other night, after realising it was Barry Levinson (and a few from the Hill St Blues company!) then Almost Famous a couple of days later ... so I might well be a binge watcher (listener) of Jeff for this pandemic! So what am I saying? Keep the old boat afloat but push the dinghy out and good luck! Cheers, Jez

Having used DPA (and Bruel & Kjaer) for a number of years I would trust their own published specs on output level, noise floor, max SPL etc. Can't see how or why a smaller diaphragm (developed after several years by the people who made the larger diaphragm model) should be lower in 'quality' tho' maybe the specs are slightly different. Sorry haven't used the 6060 yet but having lost both my B6 and one of my 4060 quad set over the last couple or so years a pair of 6060s is on my 'sometime soon' list to replace (augment what's left) a mini quad ambience and a mini underwater fx set. The 4060s may not be the 'best' omni ambience mics out there but they were certainly one of the most useful. I haven't looked too closely into it but the usefulness is at least extended with the waterproof capability of the 6060 so a couple of them are certainly my intention so far. Jez

Not in a hurry to shit upon our community and quality support from our dearly held manufacturers, but I'm sure I've come across £10 (and thus prob $10) foot long short booms on eBay from your favourite Shenzhen dealer ... Likely a 1/4" camera screw so you might need an adapter but even then I'm not sure it wasn't 3/8 ... Quite surprised anyone (manufacturer or punter) would consider a quality mega short pole to be worth the inevitable high cost so surprised by the vdb model! Quite taken with the Rode micro boompole pro myself for lightweight travel but it is 3 (+) sections with each being perhaps two or so foot in length. Jez

Curious here - not being a wireless user - would putting the five receivers more diagonal from where they are help the diversity physics? Looks like there's room to put them upright yet twist them a bit. Jez

OK, nice! J

No, keep it here! I'm sure Ty is happy with it. Was not "miking a snare" already a wander? OK, fair nuff, guess I'm too late! Jez

I kind of dared too several years back - 8040s in my case. Crashing whilst in HK at my friend's who played lead guitar for Jacky Cheung: asked to record a jam session knowing I had some field recording gear with me ended up using 8040s on toms or snare after the drummer - a merchant banker in day job - asked how much they cost and said, "If I hit them I'll just replace them ... " Couldn't argue with that and unfortunately he didn't have to buy me any new ones ... Second richest drummer I ever worked with and the absolutely least well known: decent enough though!