The Immoral Mr Teas

Starquad

Dab O'Solder with the Cannons

New Trix XXY

Yep OK, Codyman (and Jeff!) - I also subscribed (in theory, since an occasional sound recordist but not a PSM) to Daniel's ideas years ago to keep the heavy stuff on the back and the control - as light as possible - on the front. The Nova looks to achieve this very nicely. Personally I would also want in fx recording to have notebook and a few gadgets up front yet I don't tend to see many extras in Show Me Your Bag pictures. Actually my preference goes against most of what I tend to see: I would rather have a large and particularly wide (against fat) bag in front but try to keep the weight way down and up against the body. When I needed to chuck extra stuff in (notes, mics or fix units up like a Soundfield box I have room - likewise for headphones). I don't much like the look of any of the compact narrow bags which extend forward - although I grant that wireless receivers are lighter and the weight is still to the back (ie the stomach). It's just that in the modern world of the frame bag I would like to have space up front (but would still advocate putting weight on the back or around the hips).

Best, Jez

7 hours ago, codyman said:

Great setup.  I guess the million dollar question though is where do you intend on keeping all the "extras" in terms of batteries / transmitters etc etc?

I thought the point was that there ARE no extras - battery at the back, transmitters built in? Although I'm not sure what the Nova actually can do, I could be wrong. Otherwise - extras elsewhere

7 hours ago, daniel said:

The Blumlein 8 

Of course, when the entire Blumlein family fall out and refuse to work together (or get mixed up with devil worshippers) we are left with

The Blumlein Pair

What though do all these band names have in common? They are all bands who I would not pay to go and see!

J x

Dan, you forgot Ground Lift

Jim, the Sennheisers are already such a step up (at least for your kid's use) that he's probably already experiencing ecstasy!

After a while remind him to come back to the thread and try out open (or semi open) HP for better response and comfort over hours if he's in such a position to need such long use.

Personally I'm grateful to Fred for the mini review of the DT880Pro since I love my DT550s and know they will have to be replaced eventually and the considered appraisal helps me already.

Best all, Jez

1 hour ago, TVPostSound said:

Sealed?

SENNHEISER HD300 PRO

Open?

SENNHEISER HD600

 

I use these to mix at night at home. TV and Music

They translate very well to my JBL LSR 708s

Jim, I'm quoting TVPS not because I know either the 300 or 600 but because he's answering as a headphone user who usually 'critically moniters' in a space with speakers.

I ended up using 7506 cans frequently (I am not a production sound recordist) because they're extremely comfortable and I bought a level limited set and care about my ears. I have always thought they sound dreadful but accepted that they perhaps accentuate 'production sound problems' and are therefore useful. In the end, I have got used to their weird response (and lack of isolation) for fx recording and the comfort and limiting protection (and size) have meant I still use them often.

In music however the venerable BeyerDynamic DT 100 have always sounded great and are bulletproof - and in my lifetime were the studio staples. I have DT150s which I would recommend as a starting point. When I need to edit or even mix / premix on headphones the difference of using open headphones is enormous. In such cases I edit with DT 550s ... I think 990s are the modern version.

So here's my answer ...

actually maybe Sennheiser HD25 or SP if he's comfortable with the supraaural thing (and needs closed);

open headphones (DT990 etc, many other choices) are to my mind the best bet for comfort against ear fatigue;

in ears - Etymotic Research ER6 (I have the pricier 4) for excellent sounding low profile earbuds that permit low listening levels so not blasting out deafening volumes.

Or - two pairs - DT 990 and 150 for when the outside noise kicks in.

Best, Jez

As far as I can recall the only wide cardioids I currently own are in my ambisonic soundfield- although as I principally use omnis (Bruel & Kjaer and DPA) and cardioids (Sennheiser and Schoeps etc) for ambience I would also eventually like to pick up at least a stereo pair if not a stereo quad or more. I've looked at several cheaper options but in the end it is a question of how much you want to spend on a 'not so versatile' mic or mic set, especially in my case when I already have an excellent set of omnis and a pair (+ extras) of quality cardioids.

For ambience there is a lot to be said for them though - a certain 'directionality' especially in stereo use whilst preserving some of the benefits of omnis. You already know the benefits of the type/pattern though as regards classical recording - for atmos there is no difference there. For orchestral stuff I would even be considering three mics, for a Decca like arrangement.

Outside of music and ambience of course a single wide cardioid is sometimes advantageous as a centre MS mic and perhaps in plant situations (though I doubt over an omni for the latter).

I realise I haven't helped much there but probably backed up your own thoughts! But if you're recording music and atmos enough you will probably never be upset with having a quality specialist pair in your kit.

Jez

Hi Thielle,

no-one would want to teach a potential apprentice by the 'copy method' -alas I believe many schools don't understand this basic fact. I was taught (when in the industry) by "here's the scene, here are some sounds; I'll come back and hear what you've come up with".

Several of my friends worked on many of the Potters (I attempted to get work on the first!) - everybody's work was different and interesting and mutually appreciated as far as I ever saw. I remember one editor being asked to present his finished tracks to a film school - which he declined (because of what I said previously rather than some abstract idea of secrecy). In fact everyone I'm thinking of here have been most happy to share their successes (and failures) in editing with anyone who really knows what they're asking.

Just to reiterate- don't learn by (direct) copying, learn by trial and error (although copying by trying to recognise and understand is indeed good practice). Learn by listening and trying to understand: and don't focus on "sound design" - focus on storytelling - 

- can I hear the dialogue? did I miss anything because I couldn't hear the dialogue?

- did I lose track of what was going on because I was too interested in the sound?

The bread and butter of sound editing is like everything else in filmmaking - making the unreal completely believable - and it is essential that this is understood. 90% of what we do is ordinary, often even boring, not spectacular.

Dialogue has to be clear, things have to sound how they look like. Before adding the cherries the cake has to be made. Don't start with 'sound design' start with storytelling. After that of course you can change anything and everything.

Two food metaphors already, so I'll spare you the pizza made from above ...

I had 'sound bibles' when I was starting out, and they weren't Apocalypse Now etc - they were films which told stories well with totally different approaches to sound, some direct, some subtle (in no cases were the soundtrack considered paramount over other departments).

Tell the story, and as a good learning tip try to do so without drawing attention to your sound.

Best of luck, Jez Adamson

On 18 December 2019 at 10:12 PM, IronFilm said:

A thought for when the mythical "SL-6" gets released, hopefully it also has an accessory port on the back of it so that then the "SL-6" and the XL-AES could be daisy chained together?

Another thought, what about a "XL-AES-OUTPUT" accessory? With 8 channels of digital AES outputs instead of inputs? This could be handy for easy to setup and exactly accurate digital backups when for instance paired with a 2ndhand 788T.

I haven't looked into what the port is capable of so please be generous to my ignorance/laziness, but a general top unit utilising several functions even if not all possible to function at once might well be a good idea. (If Allan was pointing the input backwards to become an output I appreciated that joke).

Jez

Actually I was just too taken with the look of them, which I loved. In fact I'm an editor so know and choose open back headphones over closed whenever the 'need to use, chance to choose' allows. A pair of (again, BeyerDynamic) DT 550 - dependable and 'brain comfortable' for times I have to edit and/or premix on headphones and happy to do so for long periods when needed.

I'd be interested if the opportunity came to give those nice looking 'ear clogs' a try btw!

Jez

Simon, going over the odds to end up with a Maserati is always going to be a happy life decision!

Best, Jez

(Although it's possible the previous one was the Maserati because this reminds me more of Peter Honess' Bentley ... !)

Hi MRW, 

I’ll be brief now but hope to chime in with more detail in a few days. Aside from an understanding of the ‘basics’ (which could be anything up to a tonmeister style degree of film sound technique / engineering / music theory / sound physics) I have absolutely believed for a long time that film sound students should be taught “whatever else is going on on the film set and in post” and even more importantly that the rest of the same year’s film course should be given a serious introduction to film sound as it relates to them (‘sound for producers’, ‘sound for camera’, ‘sound for production design’ as well as the obvious possibility of ‘for makeup’ ‘for costume’ if in the same faculty). And for the creative side, ‘sound for writing’ ‘sound for directors’ ‘sound for storytelling’.

What I believe should be (perhaps gently) learnt on any kind of film course is:

on the first professional jobs - keep mouth shut and eyes and ears open - ask questions after you’ve already thought over it;

learn to understand the other departments problems and expectations;

observe the politics

... then enjoy the chaos!

Jez Adamson

Hi Fred, post will look first at the script and then afterwards at the film (first cut, assembly or whatever) to find out everything they can about story elements, vehicles, objects, animals and birds and atmospheres. There will probably already be a ‘first library’ of probable elements even before the supervising sound editor sees a frame if the budget is sufficient and they were decided upon in time.

Obvious sound elements like objects and vehicles are of immediate concern. Nice clean recordings, with clear ‘in/out’ points and from different perspectives to match camera will be very much appreciated for on-screen objects - the priority being for the more individual in character or difficulty to track down later for foley (bruitage). The most important of all are objects which are sonically or visually part of the storytelling. Occasionally there are important (script) objects which look spectacular but sound quite mediocre - even so, a recording of such for post not only lets them know that you were aware and want to point it out but also that they can easily demonstrate to director and production that this is the case and help them to budget to find or create a suitable sound.

Aside from screen or story objects, as Olle said vehicles are a big part of vintage stories - in your case probably not only the odd car but perhaps animal driven as well. If such ‘props’ are to be sourced in Africa they are perhaps extremely unlikely to be available to a post team in France (unless the budget and spirit of cooperation are both huge). As much separate ‘second unit’ (even if only one member of the sound team with perhaps help from a junior member of the art department for example) sound recorded away from filming of such items will help a great deal for post - obviously in the best conditions you can get away with. Again, even if ‘good recordings’ are difficult or impossible to achieve, a recording of ‘what it is’ will help both as a guide to accuracy for effects editors and as a potential demonstration to production that extra is needed from them later.

The worst that you, the production sound team, can ever possibly do is to miss an opportunity to get at least a recording of something that it will be impossible to ever get again. The best you can do is to collaborate pre-filming with the main sound editor to have a good plan of what opportunities may occur and which to go for (or fight for). It is understood - and sadly too common - that both are out of your control!

Aside from all that your job is to get the cleanest possible dialogue and you already know the difficulties of achieving that for a period fiction. So your efforts in this regard will always be appreciated in post beyond anything else. Post will be able to research a ‘soundscape’ that is realistic in atmosphere, wildlife and detail which works to tell the story. French bruitage is second to none (although perhaps more subtle generally than American ‘blockbuster’ foley).

Are you in Paris by the way? I was stagier there early in my career and have several friends in post sound there. My boss of one time, Richard Delmotte of the Harlequin cinema (Films Cosmos and Arkeion Films) spent twenty years making and distributing films in Africa from the era you are talking about. Period sound I have worked on includes the Anne Hathaway film Becoming Jane ten years or so ago.

Hope this is a good starter, all the best,

Jez Adamson

12 hours ago, jwill said:

 ... we shoot three takes ...

Then all cutaways and associated shots. ....

Addendum (hopefully not merged but if so then so be it - read separately)!

Just reread on cutaways, filming, etc (and hence editing ... around no ‘complete’ playback, though presuming music is always a playback and hence some base). I would definitely make sure that after the three “master” takes are filmed / recorded that each camera closeup take is married to a new on camera (mono ok) sound capture for editing / mixing boost. MKH 50 taken off stand and put on boom would be best but if time is an issue one of those 416s mounted onto the CU camera would do the duty.

End of addendum.

Hi again, firstly I would use what you have (two sets of excellent mics for stereo) assuming you have a recorder that will record 5 channels easily - and just as importantly some kind of setup that could later mix down three channels into two for a two channel stereo master mix.

Secondly I would download (from rycote) The Stereoscopic Zoom which deals with recording angles for two channel setups over different mic types: your MKH50 is a ‘narrow’ hyper. I would then look again at the presumed (and possible) setup of the performers and predict a decent performing angle - based on a pair of MKH50s - to record them. ORTF in theory demands a pair of ‘perfect’ cardioid mics so simply putting two MKH 50s in the same setup will give very different results (and the MKH 40 also is a tight pattern compared with theoretical cardioid).

Third, I would use the three RE50s (mics I have no experience with) as a secondary ‘Decca Tree’ omni arrangement, totally separate from the MKH pair - both as a backup and as a potentially interesting set. With that kind of volume and a kind acoustic the dynamic omnis (?? they are omni like the 20s I believe ??) might even behave better than the condensers. I might point the Middle mic slightly upward to even out HF directionality but that’s me pontificating before the day.

I would concentrate on the two MKH 50s though, which, being hypers will be very closely positioned anyway to get any stereo recording angle, as on one stand / stereo bar. The room might well be too loud with that many singers and reverb so prepare to put the cut on both mics: this could be crucial to consider for any even minor rehearsal, and bear in mind if there is any mics/amplification already set up which might kick in only after any rehearsal. I would start ‘flat’ however and only pad when I knew there was a problem if any.

Your main question (if you go with the MKH50s as your main recording pair) will be how far to pull them back to have the ratio of recorded to diffuse sound - and this may be dictated largely by the auditorium itself. After that, adjusting the recording angle will be what is needed, but fairly quick to do - it’s very much a case of planning ahead in intention and making the best use of any rehearsal time (partly why I also advocate setting up a decca tree, plugging it in and leaving it before concentrating one’s efforts on a main stereo pair).

Finally, fwiw, I would ignore the 416s completely (and the lavs) BUT - if an audience reaction would be favourable to capture as well as the performance (and for ‘live’ the audience often is ‘the performance’) then a couple of 416s pointed into the audience recorded onto their own tracks might also eventually help out assuming you have the extra separate tracks. But set them up with the Decca and forget about them. Concentrate on a main pair.

Hope some help, best, Jez Adamson

Whenever an actor has asked me who I have worked with, rather than anyone else asking the same question, the answer was, "Billie Whitelaw" ... 

On 11/4/2019 at 1:37 PM, Olle Sjostrom said:

WOW BASH! I'll be brewing myself this christmas, perhaps gonna give it a name like "It Depends" 

Reminded of a beer I brewed myself twenty-odd years ago that I never got the opportunity to name:

my friend instantly Christened it, “Christmas Anorak” (it was one of my poorer ones) ...

J

21 hours ago, Jay Rose said:

Oh, and if you really want to capture that classic sound: tell post that all exteriors need reverb. Because everybody knows there are echos outdoors*.

 

--

* Not kidding. Listen to some very early talkies. To make dialog "sound like an exterior", they used the studio's hard-walled (indoor) chamber.

Jay, I always thought that was just how HOLLYWOOD sounded outside.

Jez

On 21 October 2019 at 5:31 PM, Naga said:

I cut out a microdot connector from MMP-G and attached new TA5 connector with 1K resistor. 
 

Wow! Going to that much trouble I'm surprised you didn't just (OK more work) make a microdot to TA5 link. But ok, cheers, interesting!

On 21 October 2019 at 3:38 PM, saadasound said:

Thanks for all the thoughts! I was thinking about getting a stereo bar and setting up both a SM57 and a 50 for both loud and dialogue. Excuse my possible ignorance, but would it still be safe for the element of the 50 to be subject to all that loud signal?

The MKH 50 might well distort but won't be damaged. If post are unhappy about a distorted track (edit or sound mix as previously said) then the level filter on the 50 will provide safety and post can push the gain. Regarding the stereo bar I agree with Grant: piggy back the mics and keep it simple for windshielding if needed.

Jez

Having said all that I would probably put the cut on the 50 anyway : it would make audio generally more usable such that post could make more use of the 50 mic and only have to resort to the 57 when necessary.

Hi Steve, I’d begin with an obvious one - piggy back two mics on boom both set safely for what you want recorded and record two totally separate tracks expecting unusable rubbish on the unwanted channel - PRESUMING the recorder can do this without trouble. Secondly deal with the anticipated/rehearsed stuff on extra tracks separately if this can be done - so that it is pretty much as good as it can be (I’d still play safe ...) Third (but also first) check with post that whatever you do (ie- multichannel with expected crap as I suggest) can work for them with their system and timeframe - and check fully: editorial might be happy with a crap but hearable mix so long as the mixer can trust the stems. If they are not and need a “mix” then take it from there - levels and limiters but it won’t be as potentially good.

Just my basic first thoughts - the last thing I recorded for fun and without trying too hard (=preparing) was our annual brass bands procession / political rally / street party / riot - and even from the safe second floor rooftop position it was more gain riding than I could be bothered with.

Hopefully, as always, more and better advice will follow. If you are right in there “with the drum core” the obvious details are: can you get a higher gain (directional?) mic on the boom that won’t get damaged ie diaphragm; can you monitor ok and move around safely; protect your hearing despite all the rest, even if by swapping ears listening mono and periodically plugging the other ...

Making any use of preparation time, particularly with instruments (and groups of instruments) you’re not familiar with, is a must.

But back to the beginning, for something like this, if you get to communicate with post regarding their expectations you might well either make yourself a hero or save yourself a lot of time! (I am post sound, btw!)

Best, Jez 

... ha! 2 minutes later ... same wavelength and (nearly) perfect sync with Jay !

Jeff, that’s brilliant. My friend had a similar “claim to fame” (or her dad at least) that Jimi Hendrix threw up over his drum kit.

Nick, as a failed / gave up piper, I hope that everyone here appreciates the skill involved in recording those beasts even in easier circumstances ...

Jez

On 10/9/2019 at 4:05 PM, Jay Rose said:

. TV Tech article.

 

Here's the thing: ..

it'll be almost impossible for a director to come up with a new look for a show!

 

Does this mean, “no longer the choice between blue/grey and brown/orange” (yippee!) or,

”only a choice between blue/grey and brown/orange” (hmm, no change then ...)

J x

Vata / Elias, welcome and the best of luck. Jon’s first point is the best advice - try your best to get yourself known by local crew (actually any crew, not just mixers - if folks like you and appreciate your aim, you will hopefully be helped along the way). Most (perhaps all) of us have started by being humble, focused and determined, and owe a lot to the people who have recognised our promise and either supported us along the way or taken us on and taught us directly.

Aside from that folks with strong (or existing) unions should understand that Greece is not in the same battle that the US currently might be in. I started nearly thirty years ago and already at that stage UK unions had been broken to nothing and the BBC were making lifetime employees redundant and hiring them back on revolving 3 month contracts. And that was the ‘job for life’ BBC we dreamed of working for ...

Posting here was a good first move. Second move is getting to know the local professionals. The third move is staying power - with the profession and here with us!

Jez