MattinSTL

There was a little TV Logic monitor on top of the cam... and a BNC leading out to the standard Panasonic 17" monitor that everyone uses. The Panasonic monitor was AC, but even the TV Logic was on batteries... so... the BNC was the only way for a problem to get to the cam(?) I figure there must have been a problem with the cam itself, BUT... the Panasonic was plugged into a cube tap... as far as I could see, the only other thing plugged into that was iPhone chargers and a laptop.

This was a shoot for a significant cable network (I'd rather not say, not sure if they'd expect me to fix the cam ground loop... but I tried)... it was on a small cam... Sony 7ZU. Of course I made sure it wasn't sending phantom (on my line-in)... I also re-routed my cables and rigged them so nothing was even touching the camera... didn't matter. I was torn on rigging everything wireless at that point... just to try it, but the day was moving fast and I'm confident they got good usable sound... perfect sound on the boom channel... and acceptable (with a little post work) on the lav channel... but I wasn't in the best mood by the end of the day... thinking, damn, it's always something. (for the record, I usually get really clean sound... I'm just saying that IN LIFE... "it's always something".)

So today I'm convinced that one of the lights is pumping EMI into my lav channel... but I also hear it very faintly on boom. I moved dimmers and played around with placement on the breaks... could never beat the mysterious EMI... or RFI... wasn't sure... but that's what it sounded like. Ended up pulling the snake on the cam... and that did it. How often do you see this? I've heard crap feeds back from cams... but it didn't matter if I was on return or not... even on the recorder the buzz was omnipresent as long as I was connected to the cam(?)

Well I'm happy with the discussion this opened up... seriously. At least I don't feel "alone" on this kind of gig. Yeah... for those of you who don't experience this often... the situation is pretty much what I call home. That's what I meant when I said asking a producer what they want from me yields, "I don't know. YOU'RE the sound guy! Just make it sound good!" Again... why I posted here. It's about ease of post-flow... plus just simply giving them what they want, even if they don't know what they want. So far... yeah... no complaints, but I just wondered if I should take it in another direction... or offer to. This is budget work... i.e. bang it out and have it ready to turn around quickly... ideally everything right on the camera. I'm using a 442 feeding 2 cams (through break-aways when the shoot allows, and wireless most of the time. My recorder is only an HD-P2... (for insurance, not expected to be used)... not 702 or 744. Like others have said... in this setting there's no slating or jam-syncing, etc. It's very much INSTANTANEOUS like... "lav who? we're already rolling? okay no problem"... and I have to stab a vampire onto somebody in 10 seconds, and be sure it won't make any noise... and also won't be seen on cam... sure... simple. No worries. I'm glad to hear I'm not the only one who's gotta' work like this... honestly, it makes regular days seem like CAKE... I almost fall asleep on a normal day after one of the reality days..

You know what? That might be the answer. I'm going to offer this suggestion... that way all audio is as ISO as it can be... and all tied to the 2 cams' footage that'll be matched up in post anyway. All synced to picture on separate tracks and both cams still having their own on-cam mkh-60 as an option (or reference if needed). There's an editor rough-cutting right on site... so I'll ask him how he feels about it, AFTER asking the producer of course! I'm guessing the editor would rather have the same audio on both cams, so he doesn't have to cut all the footage with constant awareness of the independent channels on each cam... but I'll see what he says. Thanks for the suggstion.

Eric... aside from the usual boom ch1 and all lavs ch2 (on a 2 channel cam)... the normal input is, "I don't know, you're the soundguy" (which is why I was asking for opinions here...)

ProSound... thanks, that's pretty much what I've been doing. CCalandro... have you ever worked with a Producer who looks at you like, "What do I want? Just make it sound good!" They will most likely be happy with anything I do for them, yes I will ask (again)... but for one situation that's come up I said we didn't have what we needed and the reply was, "you'll figure it out"... so... yeah... no worries... I alway do. I'm just wondering what the guys on the board here would SUGGEST if they were in this situation... and there was no input (by choice) from the Producer. What would you expect the best choice to be? I should add that sometimes, because of the reality situation, both cams aren't shooting the same thing... one cam may break away for a couple minutes and I glance at the producer and give a nod like, "follow him, or stay with cam A?" During the day, sometimes I shadow one camera... sometimes the other... sometimes both... which is why I think having each cam keep it's on-cam mkh-60 is a good thing. Jon, I need to start making my posts more concise. Both cams each have their own mkh-60 on them (pretty damn good mics)... so yeah, that's how I'm feeling also... I think I'm just going to stick with letting each cam keep it's own on-cam mic... and just send my mixed lav track to each cam's ch2. There is no jammed TC by the way... only set time of day TC).

I've been doing a reality gig with (2) Canon C300s. Working wirelessly is easiest, so that's what we're doing. Both cams are shooting a lot of up-close action and both are equipped with mkh-60s. Now please don't pull this off-topic into "a mic mounted on a camera is your first problem"... yes, I know... I KNOW... but the reality is the closest mic wins, we're not matching timecode (cameras loosely sync'ed via time of day TC)... and I'm still booming and lav'ing everyone up. All I'm wondering is what the consensus is for mix-out to wireless hop from my 442... Since both cams have a really good mic on them... and the editor will DEFINITELY want a scratch-track to make his job easier (since everything isn't jam-sync'ed TC)... and I'm booming, laving, and recording everything... my assumption is that it's best to just send the lav mix to both cams on one channel while supplying my recording each day for MY boom track... as well as to cover any possible hits or interference on the two camera hops. Would you do anything different? 1. Would you make a case for hopping both channels (boom and summed lavs) to both cams, splitting boom and lav the usual way. 2. Would you hop both channels only to cam A or cam B and let the other cam keep it's on-cam mkh-60 active? 3. Would you sum EVERYTHING out of the 442 and send that complete mix to both cams on a single wireless (per cam)? Again, my assumption, under this bit of chaos and to make full use of the editor, is to let each cam keep it's mkh-60 going and send my summed lav channels to ch2 on both cams, then when the cams are in someone's face they'll be getting good audio anyway... and the rest of the time it's nat-sound on each cam while I supply my boom track (plus a more guaranteed lav track since it's one less wireless link, and of course I'm monitoring so I know if there's a problem). Now before you state the obvious, this Producer isn't saying what they want... they just want me to give them the best, and I'd assume easiest, audio results from each day. I'm used to working with guys who only want my recordings if something went bad at the camera... In the kind of work that I do they want the edit to go fast and easy... which means good sound in the cam. I kind of pride myself on that and want this client to be thrilled with what they hear right out of the cam. So how would you utilize (2) 2-channel cams, each equipped with a good mic... 3 to 5 "talent" (wireless lavs)... and all of this wirelessly linked to your bag?

+ $20 Thanks Jeff... and thanks to the cool members of this community. The "show us your bag" thread is practically worth $20 by itself

Do you have any friends doing anything in the industry? Even just a crew of guys making shorts? If so... hook up with them. It's best to learn on projects like that... where there never was any pay at stake... and the people involved know both sides of the equation... i.e. you aren't experienced and they're making some pet project for themselves. If you're trying to get on something serious... and haven't at least done the above, I think you're kidding yourself. Most days I'm pretty relaxed on a shoot... but with the knowledge that I better not make any mistakes... so the last thing I'd want is to be in a teaching situation while I'm also trying to do the best job I can myself. I've been in that situation... by circumstances beyond my control... twice. In both cases... while I really respected what they were trying to do, my contributions to the productions suffered for it. There are a million productions happening in any city all the time... where people are making a short for a festival... or this or that... zero budget stuff where there was never a chance of hiring anybody anyway... that you should try to join. You'll learn a lot... and it won't cost anybody anything... or hurt the industry either... because those projects are typically low quality anyway, and they normally have their little brother booming, etc... meaning, a guy truly interested in getting good sound... with even minimal gear... should be superman on such a set. This is no disrespect to those projects, but it's the reality. If you can't contribute something good to a shoot on that level... then you're not ready to be on a paying shoot anyway. Hopefully you take this advice in the right tone... I think you'll be surprised how well that can pan out... the process of making yourself valuable first. Chances are that if you do that... somebody will be much more likely to take you under their wing.

Thank you sir! I'm sorry I don't know Mark Bovis (yet)... in my circle, the main soundies are Chuck Stanton, Bryan Kweskin, and Fred Early... I've worked with Kweskin and Stanton, but not Fred Early. I'd consider myself friends with Jim MacMorran... an excellent post guy at Avatar Studios... (who I also work for)... then everybody else I know in STL is DP, cam-op, or production. The guys I've worked with the most used to be known as "the Daves"... because there are two guys named Dave here in STL that used to do a lot of the local production (as well as travel for features, etc). And of course thank you for that high-class endorsement Alan... I was almost embarrassed to reply to that

Marc... I use THE SENNHEISER FREQUENCY CHECKER to try to predict any problems for a base-line. The reason I'm linking it is wow... I didn't realize LA was as packed with signal as it is! I've only done about a dozen gigs there... and I just used what I had for wireless, and scanned for a "clear" frequency. I also had some issues. Jeez, you guys are FULL out there! Senator, thanks for the reassurance. I did a gig this week that was very run 'n gun, being shot for broadcast... I needed every mic I had and decided to put the Sennheisers into use... you know what? They sounded great and I didn't get a single hit! I probably got lucky... *shrug*... but I was planning to sell them as I convert my bag to all Lectro... now I think I'm keeping them. (Still bought several Lectros this week however). Thanks again to you guys and JWsound for this great resource of shared experience and knowledge.

Thank you again Senator. I should probably phrase my questions more carefully rather than typing off the cuff, so to speak. I've had 5 sets of Sennheiser G series and I've used them on some reasonably serious gigs, and whether or not this was wise, I clarified for the client in advance on what they were getting, for what they were paying... and offered to do the gig with all Lectro, and forward the rental cost. They chose the 5 Sennheisers. I don't put Sennheiser's sound on the level of Lectro, but I'm glad to hear your endorsement of the Sennheisers. I may be selling them short unnecessarily with clients that wouldn't know the difference. I've been doing sound for the same client for a few months now, and we haven't even broke out the Sennheisers based on the cam-op's criticism of them. (This guy is someone I highly respect and I had no battle to win, and so far our sitiations have accomodated hardwired lavs). I've got a budget shoot coming up next week where we anticipate run and gun on boom only, but if there's nothing to lose I may put the new Lectro on it's own channel and see how it does.

Thank you very much Senator and Marc! I appreciate your time to answer. I'm sorry, but I should have stated this was in relation to old, fixed frequency units vs. new Lectros. Senator... I've been using Lectro 411s where I can scan for a channel, but those units are not my own. In the past I've also had good luck with lower models, that can be found pretty cheap on occasion. Recently I came across two CR190's for peanuts. One set was dead center of a vacant band here in STL (Saint Louis). The other was in a lower powered TV station's band. I bought the one that was in a clear band, and skipped the other. My typical use for wireless is for convenience, when a production is moving really quickly and I have to pop a lav on and off people in about a minute... and we stay in close proximity. Of course I always have redundancy with boom on ch 1. I realize the obvious answer is $2500 per channel 411 or Zaxcom for as guaranteed as wireless gets, and with any "serious" production I'll still be using 411s if not hardwired. For lower budget stuff, (or even my own job), I'd still like to have extra wireless sets available, and I wondered if having any TV station as showing on the chart means a TX will be overpowered... or if there was a strength where you pretty much would know it wouldn't matter... i.e. this CR190 is very clean (so far) that I'm tempted to pick up a couple more... and I'm wondering if I should only consider units in a totally vacant band, or if the 100mW TX is enough to be clear even if it's in an occupied, but weak TV channel. I think you've answered my question well however... especially since I'm already gambling on a unit with only one frequency. I'm going to avoid any extra risk on the issue. I've got several Sennheiser G series sets, but I only use them on lower budget stuff too... as the noise floor is higher then I'd like. If I had a bunch of cheap Lectros with their low noise floor... I'd probably use wireless more then I have been. (I have a friend who I may be running sound for, for a doc in the Himalayas... and while I'm guessing ANYTHING will have a clear signal there, I'd like to be able to use the set afterwards too... and the rugged build of Lectro, even their older stuff... would inspire confidence in that situation.)

I've been using an HD-P2 for years... I'll be happy to check out V1.08 and offer my thoughts.

That's an awesome picture... a lot of experience in one frame.

So you look at the frequency map on lectrosonics and sennheiser... you see there's a TV channel with 15kw tower in your frequency, but it's 60 miles away. Let's say you have a lectro set with one frequency in the middle of that band. Will it be crystal clear or will you only hear that TV station through the receiver? How do you know? Normally I look for channels in a "vacant" block... but what's the cutoff? Is there a hard number here? Can you expect clean audio even if you're in the middle of a weak TV channel? I've worked with 411 many times and rarely had to seek out a new channel for clear audio... Let's say I find a bargain 195d for backup, but the frequency is in the middle of a weak band and NOT in the band of the 100kW plus big stations... will it most likely be clean in reasonably close proximity? What power kW and mileage is the deal breaker for shared bands? EDIT: Obviously I aim for the "vacant" bands... but as the charts show this distance and signal strength of each band (vs. simply yes and no) I'm assuming there's a strength where even though a band shows occupied, the strength and/or distance is irellevant to the performance of a wireless set that's used in less then 50' distances? Say Lectro 100mW transmitter in the dead-center of a 15kW TV station (which is very weak for a TV channel, but obviously way stronger then the 100mW)... AT 60 miles away?

I figure it can't hurt to put my name out there for the midwest. I've been doing location sound for about 10 years... I've done Modern Marvels, ABC, CBS, Disney, Fox News, E!tv, and other national stuff that I've long forgot.. etc. I've done sound from just outside Chicago down to Oklahoma City. I'll travel if the $$$ makes sense. OKC was a 6 week gig for a feature, but most of my time has been working out of a bag as mixer and boom op... i.e. ENG type stuff. I also do lots of corporate, but I'm comfortable with run'n'gun... and I guarantee you'll enjoy my company over a beer at the end of the day. There's a guy that I've done a bunch of local and national stuff with and he says what he likes about me on sound is if I say it sounds good he knows it sounds good... and if I say it sounds bad he knows it still sounds good. So... if you have a gig coming up in the midwest and need a soundguy, hit me up with the gig and I'll be happy to get the sound you need without any drama or headaches. I'll record for you, but I'll also get the sound you want on-cam directly (that's what all the above required due to instant turn around requirements).

Bwahhaahaahaa! Yeah... so my return is all F'ed up... I can't figure out why Ch.1 is hot as hell and Ch.2 is low... cam op says levels are fine... I'm panicking... but I switch to direct and ignore return... everything's fine. I walk up to the cam between takes and WTF... red ISN'T right? I look at him like... "can I change these?"... and obviously, for the editor... boom is now Ch.2 for this gig... so I do the rest of the day that way... using direct and assuming everything's fine. Well... as usual... it was... but yeah... WTF Canon? When is right EVER left? One thing I'll say about the C300 positive... is the batteries last forever on it. We go through a lot of bricks on everything else.

Anybody else think it's funny that on the C300... "Input 1" is on the right and "Input 2" is on the left?... so on pretty much any other cam I've ever plugged a snake into... red is right... hmm... weird.

Maybe I should rephrase... I never set up my boom until lights are 100%. I set it up with a knuckle holding it down against the stand... out of the way... and wait until the cam op confirms the key is where it's going to stay. In the past... setting up a boom in it's expected position was a guarantee that they'd decide to key from that side. (I didn't mean I start at ZERO 2 minutes before it's time to shoot... although I've usually been an ENG guy... so I've had to do that too.) And thanks for the welcome... I'm very happy I found this forum.

Doc... you just did two things... 1) made me incredibly happy I found this place... and 2) made me realize that MY OWN mic'ing challenges have been nothing but a walk in the park. I'm a big fan of what appears to be the show I think it is... and I always wondered how much sound gear was lost in action... it's a surprise to think it's not all that much in reality. (I assumed there were bins of lavs getting wasted daily.)

Marc, in that link they say the Tram capsules originally came from hearing aids. Funny enough, I have both Trams and COS11... (and Countryman EMW and B6 and Senn MKE2)... and I'm ending up where I started... the Tram is once again my goto lav. I do think the COS11 is a better lav, but not way better... but at least that blog makes me feel better about the additional cost of the COS11s.

I read the whole thread to see if anybody missed this obvious one... I NEVER set up sound until lighting is 100%... and I still find the best spot to key As a Walken fan... how about a cartoon walken talking head cam op looking over asking if you're sending the right tone?

I'm not sure how you guys feel about reviving 2 year old threads... but this is a very current topic for me. I had a soundbag set up with BDS and all IDX stuff until a couple years ago... and I'm putting another bag together now. I'd intended to do it the very same way... already bought a JL-2 plus charger. I just received a pair of brand new IDX NP-L7 batteries from Adorama... and they arrived DOA. The charger flashes orange indicating fully drained (i.e. permanently dead) batteries. I read all the threads on here... talking about "dangerous batteries" and reliability, durability, etc... and since I had all IDX previously... I decided to bite the bullet and just go full IDX again. When I had NP-L7s batteries before... one of the two never lasted as long... and I contacted IDX about it back then. So... with that in mind... which I had already decided to overlook... and now two brand new batteries arriving dead... I'm a lot more comfortable than I was before in taking a shot on the B4B batteries. It's a bummer that this thread ended like so many do... with loose tails where people never follow up. I guess you could say that wiggling a third party battery is the accepted solution(?) Another post says 2 out of 3 work fine(?) I don't know how many people come across this forum or this specific post... but every time I've tried to read anything about this situation... google brings me back to this very thread... so I think it might be helpful to re-visit it. I'm ordering some B4B batteries as I return my IDX "bricks" (literally)... so we'll have a new report on this old issue pretty soon.