Gotham Sound

Just a quick note that Wisycom's Massimo Polo will be at Gotham on Monday May 5th at 2:30. He'll be there for employee training, but we're opening it up to anyone interested in attending.

For more information, please visit: https://www.gothamsound.com/event/words-wisydom

Thank you,

Peter

Hi Simon and Felipe and all,

We shot a video of Joe's new recorder at IBC with a much improved iPad interface: https://vimeo.com/75714488

The new recorder has 24 mic preamps and so of course the GUI has much more to do.

For me, the key to making the iPad an even remotely professional piece of kit is that it NOT rely solely on wireless or battery power.

Philip - I agree that metadata entry is ok - and could be geared more towards film and tv scene and take.

Peter

I haven't used it, but it looks interesting:

http://www.dev-audio.com/products/microcone/

Multi-microphone array with some kind of "intelligence" tailor made for your Dad's application, if it works...

Peter

Right after I graduated from SUNY Purchase, I got hired to record sound on a feature ("Burnzy's Last Call") made by a bunch of Purchase alumn. It was a smartly produced low-budget feature - 90% of it took place in one location, a bar. They took over the whole brownstone building and put the editing rooms on the second floor.

I bought an old MTE? 16mm dubber from Matt Price and installed it on the second floor. After each shooting day, I would go upstairs and transfer the 1/4" to mag, and give it to the assistant editor (also a friend from Purchase).

It was grueling but incredibly gratifying.

I gave the dubber away and last I heard it was put on the curb to be picked up with the rest of the bulk garbage.

Peter

If memory serves (and it's become alarmingly unreliable lately) that was a 1 volt AC line frequency(50/60 Hz) output for driving a transfer machine,etc.

Peter

Thank you all for the kind words and encouragement!
 

It's been almost 9 months of earnest development and we still have a ways to go. We are working with local developers who share our passion to bring a depth of information for each product - manual, firmware - in addition to prices. 

And of course we're open to ideas and suggestions!

Sincerely,
Peter Schneider 

We've sent out the PIX260i, JoeCo, MetaCorder and Boom Recorder audio recorders on reality shows and set up a few production sound mixers recently with the PIX260i.

All have their quirks.

Some caveats with the PIX260i:

It's BWF-P only. This is likely to change, but that's how it is right now - which may be an issue for post.

It only monitors channels as stereo pairs - meaning "1.2";"3,4"; etc. We include a little headphone switchbox with the unit so mixers can solo individual tracks to both ears.

You can't check menu settings while recording. Not that big of a deal since a lot of info is displayed on the screen while it's recording, but something to know when you have to troubleshoot.

JOSH - this may have bit you: You need to switch it to "Audio Only" mode when there is no video signal.

There is a persistent issue we've had with large Dante setups when trying to keep it synced to external word clock (it defaults to internal sync), but as long as we manually changed it when powering it up, all was fine.

I have never seen it shut down during a long audio recording (10+ hours).

Peter Schneider

It works well with Boom Recorder, although we had an issue with MetaCorder at 64 tracks.

Depending on your set up, it may be tricky to monitor the "return" from BR or MC - and remember you have to "subscribe" the audio in both directions if you do want to monitor the return.

Peter

I really like the JoeCo recorder - up to 64 tracks in 1 RU with ltc/iXML BWF-M files to a USB harddrive all on 12 volts!

The one thing I found lacking was metering - it's just too much information to fit on a 1 RU chassis.

That's been addressed handily by the newly released JoeCo Remote, which provides  metering and control to the much larger iPad screen.

One of the issues that iPads have are that most apps that interface to "real world" hardware rely on Wifi, which we know can be problematic in congested areas. The JoeCo Remote solves this by giving you the option of using it hardwired, by turning the headphone jack of the iPad into an old-fashioned modem to connect directly to the serial port of the JoeCo. I hope other manufacturers take note.

We (Gotham) should have stock within two weeks, selling for just under $500.

More info here:http://joeco.co.uk/main/JCR_introduction.html

Peter Schneider

The RIO preamps are only compatible with those Yamaha mixers that can accept the Dante mini-YGDAI cards (obviously) AND are capable of remote head-amp (HA) control.

The 01v96i fails on this last point. You need to go up to a DM1000 to get them to work.

The funny thing is that because the are both Dante, they'll happily see each other, but the preamps won't pass audio.

As a workaround, I was going to build an iPad mini app using Touch Osc (http://hexler.net/software/touchosc

) to send midi commands to the mixer (or serial commands to the RIO via the serial in on the DANTE card), but Yamaha does not publish the command protocol for their HA. (At least I couldn't find it on the internet).

It's frustrating because they publish the midi control spec for every other aspect of their mixers in great detail - including the 01v96i.

SO - if anyone here has access to the Yamaha HA control specs, I'll happily test and share an external control solution for the 01v96i/RIO. Unfortunately, I am beginning to think that Yamaha  deliberately obfuscates this information - it differentiates their product lines.

Peter

Peter:

 

Very useful piece of info, as I was planning to try some various interfaces with our 01V96i board. I wonder which device doesn't conform to the protocol!

 

Thank you Gordon for sharing as well-all good stuff!

 

--S

Thanks Jeff and CrewC.

Incidentally, we're already starting to see bridge interfaces between MADI, AES, ADAT and even Aviom16 and Dante. They aren't particularly location friendly (rackmount A/C boxes) , but they are ideal for allowing current location recorders to participate in a larger Dante network.

Peter

Thanks Scott.

I'm working on a bigger written piece and video showing tips and tricks in the setup.

Here's one tip from Inkmaster: We ran the LTC through the RIO preamps, so that audio and timecode would be subject to the same latency.

A few additional notes:

Its early so I know things will get smoother. Since each manufacturer can pick and choose Dante features a la carte, single manufacturer implementations tend to be the most straightforward, but here's one exception:

The Yamaha 01V96i with the Dante card cannot control the gain of the Yamaha RIO1608 preamps, even though they both happily "see" each other on the Dante network. So we are effectively cut out of a very slick, inexpensive set up. I'm currently implementing a workaround using the Lectro Dante BOB, but still - it's  irritating.

Peter

We (Gotham) have jumped into the Dante waters head first. We've grown to like it, but it wasn't always smooth sailing.

We (along with Sound Supervisor Martin Kelly) designed and installed a system for the reality show Ink Masters that tied the following audio products together with Dante:

Yamaha CL-5, with

Yamaha RIO 3224-D x2

Yamaha RIO 1608

Lectrosonics ASPEN DNT

Lectrosonics DANTE BOB

Sound Devices PIX-260

JoeCo DANTE

Dante Virtual Sound Card

It's worth noting that for some of that gear, Dante was the only common interface available, and without it, we would have had to go to multiple A-D-A stages to interface the gear.

Once the network was set up, Dante proved to be extremely stable. But the process of setting up the network revealed a few important points about Dante:

First: Dante is not audio. Dante is a network protocol designed to transport audio. 

That has profound implications when designing and troubleshooting the network. 

Most importantly, when something goes wrong you can't just unplug the CAT5 cable and plug it into a headphone interface. With analog (of course), AES, ADAT and even MADI, I have a box that will let me listen to the audio with headphones.

Dante doesn't work that way. Even if I plug that CAT5 cable into another device, I have to subscribe audio to it before I hear anything.

Dante can  optionally communicate on two separate physical networks. Most Dante devices that implement this second physical CAT5 port can have it be configured as "redundant" - where each port is a separate network, or "switched" where each port is part of the primary network only - useful for daisy chaining devices when redundancy is not needed.

When the primary and secondary Dante networks are accidentally combined in a redundant network. It wreaks havoc with the audio - causing clicks and pops for all devices as audio packets are flooding the networks. You can do this easier than you think since "switched" is the default mode on some audio devices. 

Second: The Dante interface itself is a "black box".

Although the Dante protocol is based on open standards, the Dante interface itself is a proprietary daughter card (http://www.audinate.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=276

) that has its own firmware and is even reset and rebooted separately from the host machine. 

This became an issue when we updated the firmware of a Yamaha RIO pre-amp before a job, which promptly stopped being recognized by the CL-5 mixer. Resetting the pre-amps or the mixer didn't fix the problem - we had to restore the card in the pre-amp to factory default from the Dante controller.

Third: Clocking needs to be carefully planned

Sample rate conversion is not a part of the Dante spec, and so from a clocking perspective,  any Dante system effectively has to consider the Dante network itself as a digital audio device. The standard rules of digital audio clocks still apply: There can only be one master. 

On Inkmasters, we set up our clock as follows:

Master: Rosendahl Nanonsync

Yamaha CL-5 slaved via WordClock to the Nanosync

Yamaha DANTE set to "sync to external word clock" via the Dante Controller

All other devices set to sync to the DANTE card (some devices didn't present a choice).

One issue that came up was with the PIX-260 which insisted on defaulting it's Dante interface to "sync to external wordclock" from the Dante controller, even though the PIX-260 itself was set to sync to Dante. The resulting clock loop resulted in no audio from the PIX. This has since been corrected.

These and a few other caveats might lead you to believe that we don't favor Dante. Actually, the opposite is the case: We love the flexibility. There is genuine magic in being able to split and distribute audio using (almost) off the shelf network switches, and the Dante Virtual Sound Card works incredibly well - being able to record 64 channels with NO sound card is spectacular. (BTW, Metacorder had an issue with the driver, but Boom Recorder worked well for us).

Instead, we're advocating cautiously implementing DANTE audio -  it's a networking protocol first, audio second. As Jon said, "First, decide how to approach a production, then figure out how to interconnect."

Peter Schneider

Take a look at our video we shot at NAB of Directout - 

https://vimeo.com/64044025

They have a lot of great location friendly MADI  products. In particular, I love their MADI headphone amplifier!

Peter

Full disclosure: We sell and use Directout products.

Thanks Steven.....

Peter

Are you sure you are in the correct compatibility mode? It should say CP400 as it powers up.

Also, do you get a pilot lock on the 411?

Peter

Hi Folks,

I finally finished cutting together the video I shot of RME's Jeff Petersen at NAB.

There's a lot of interesting topics that he discusses, including:

why RME chose external PCIe instead of Thunderbolt 

a new standard for MADI over Ethernet

why RME feels MADI is inherently more stable than DANTE 

12V DC powered MADI interface with DSP

Here's the link:

I hope it's ok to post this here and not the Manufacturers and Dealers forum - it just seems more on-target in this forum.

Peter Schneider

Gotham Sound

I've been shooting videos of interesting products. As I finish editing them, I upload them here:

https://vimeo.com/album/2338718

The most interesting product for me so far is Radio Active Design's intercom -  

Listening to James Stoffo explain why they chose the VHF spectrum for the device is eye-opening.

Peter Schneider

Gotham Sound

P.S. Wisycom and Redding/Audio Ltd have interesting products which I'll post the videos for by tomorrow.

The thing about the JoeCo box is that it's primarily designed for music recording - specifically it was designed for the "virtual sound check" market. 

Of course it's since found it's way into other markets, including audio for video.

I think their feeling is that since most installations for film and tv include a master clock anyways, it might be cost prohibitive to include an Ambient "upgrade" option.

On the other hand, they sell the iXML option for our market, but that's *software* upgrade - much cheaper to implement!

Peter

It sounds like JoeCo needs to talk with the folks at Ambient.

 

MarkO.

I am a big fan of the JoeCo - 12 volts, 24 tracks (more for DANTE and MADI models), USB drive, RS-422/MIDI/GPIO remote control, external LTC timecode. It's a great system for large track count, long take recordings on location.

They hold up well in our rental department (we have 4 units), and are an ideal complement to Metacorder/Boom Recorder setups - they allow for a truly redundant second recording, and the graphic meters on the computer make up for the lack of detailed metering on the JoeCo.

We clock the JoeCo boxes externally from a Rosendahl or other high-accuracy digital clock, as it's internal sample clock is not sufficiently accurate for long take recordings.

Peter Schneider

My favorite is "short between the headphones"

Peter

PLEASE can it be standard to have reverse polarity and  over-voltage protection  in location audio gear. Stuff happens. This is needlessly stressful for an end-user, for want of a 79 cent diode.

(end rant)

Peter

I'm really happy to see so many people found the video worthwhile. I will reach out to Lionsgate to see if they'd consider allowing the clips to be shown to the trade. I will keep everyone posted.

Peter

Our video from "The Sound of Nurse Jackie: An Afternoon with Jan McLaughlin & Steve Borne" is now available to view online! Watch as Jan and Steve offer comprehensive advice for creating an efficient workflow to ease the creative process.

Thanks to Jan and Steve for sharing these wonderful tips with us, and to AVID and Tekserve for supporting the event.

http://rsvp.tekserve.com/the-sound-of-nurse-jackie-featuring-jan-mclaughlin--steve-borne/

I'd be curious to know other's opinions about this as well, but as far as I can tell the only conflict might come down the road when a sound editor attempts to conform the tracks. Since both recorder's files would have the same scene/take/timecode/creation time-date (roughly), it might be difficult to tell which BWF file to refer to. 

Therefore, I would recommend using a different, non-overlapping REEL # for each recorder just to be sure. For example, the 664 reel#'s could end in "A", and the Nomad's in "B", or odd#, even#, etc - anything so that you never get identical reel#'s.

THE best thing to do is to test: Submit both recorders' files, have the picture editors ingest the files and hand over the OMF's to the post sound department.

Peter

Gotham Sound