Henchman

How are you liking 12 Monkeys?

Kirk Acevedo in 12 Monkeys is like that. Whispering low talker. But on the flip side, his players his character very well in the show.

I think you misunderstood us Crew. We have no love for lavs. We love a great boom. Wish we got them all the time.

I was gong to ask the same question.

And that is the problem. Pretty much all of the shows ive been mixing, the producers don't want realism. As I said before, they freak out when they hear even the slightest of tonality change because an actor turns away. And it soudns totally appropriate, but nit account to the producers. Or you have someone 15 feet away, in a live room. Sounds appropriate according to the scene. Nope. Not according to the producer. They wanted to hear it as of the actor was standing right in front if us.

I have asked fellow RRM about what they are doing. You can follow that discussion here: https://www.gearslutz.com/board/post-production-forum/989522-lav-vs-boom-vs-mix-track-mix.html

Go back and read what I said. I said, I have asked the editors to start with the boom first. Then, if there's an issue find a better mic on another track. In the case of a two boom situation, I would assume that the next track would be the next boom. And I'm not having a problem remixing every scene. I was having a problem mixing scenes with a mix track with combfiltering issues due to phasing. Working hard to get it to sound right, only to find out there was a much better sounding mic all along. And after running into the same issue time and time again on various shows, having wasted God knows how much of valuable mix time every single week, I made the decision to not have my time wasted anymore.

I am talking about the use of the mix track in audio post only.

I don't see where you think I said anything to get you going. I also never said we build our tracks from lavs only. What I said was that I have told my editors to use the boom, until they run into an issue, then go look for a better mic in another track. The reason I started this thread is because I have run into cases where a lav is cutting in and out, or is being overloaded, has issues where the mic will distort at a certain mid range frequency, even though the mic isn't being overloaded. What I have done when I am able to catch these issues early on, I will always try and get hold of the mixer myself, as I don't believe in throwing anyone under the bus.

Jeff, we have been running into a lot of cases where there is no boom in some scenes , because of the two camera setup, and there is no way to get a useable boom in there. So, now we have a mix track being fed from a bunch if lavs, with all the joy of comb filtering and additive noise, making it unuseable. Then, IF there is a boom in these two camera set ups, it's too far away, and there's too much room and noise on the mic, also making it unuseable. Then there is the case where the mix track has again for some reason comb filtering issues due to phasing if two or more mics. Becoming all too obvious when actors are moving around. Why this Is the case, I don't know. But thatbis the case. Now, let's take the case where on the mix track the sound mixer is transitioning from a boom to a lav or vice versa. It is immensely easier for me as a re-recording mixer to get that to match sonically when the two mics are on two completely separate tracks, each with their own individual handles, to allow me to process each one completely independent form the other. Maybe the boom needs a bit more noise reduction, and more whines, whistles and hums removed. Whereas the lav needs a but more mide and lowmids removed, and less notch filtering and less noise reduction. This is the amount of freedom and separation I personally require and need, to mix the dialog the way I want it to be mixed, in the limited time we have. I know not all mixers will mix this way. Thats fine. But like I said, after losing a show because of issues related to the mix track, I am not willing to put my job on the line again. So, hence my very simple request. Mixers, don't regard your lav tracks as something that will be used as a last resort. Because it really isn't the case. I thought maybe I was completely off base, which is why I asked my friend yesterday about these issues, and he said they are seeing the same issues.

Do you have any idea how often I actually have to do that simply because there is no boom at all?

Trust me. Neither do I.

I was talking to another RR mixer friend last night. He works on one of the major lots, works on a lot of big TV shows, and has a bunch of Emmys. I mentioned this thread, and asked him about his take on it. And he said exactly what I've been saying. They are using easily 50-60% lavs. Bokms when they can. But mix tracks are pretty much unuseable due to phase issues etc.

Nah. Credits don't pay bills.

We see it all the time in post too. Spend a whole season mixing a show, working hard to do the best we can to make the show sound the best it can. Season wrap party. Every office assistant, gopher, bellboy and runner is invited. Not us.

If you think that using a mix track means, one can simply ride the faders then you are very much mistaken.

And where do you expect the time to come from for a re-recording mixer to listen to the mix tracks?

In case you may have thought I was placing blame on sound mixers, I most certainly am not. I know the amount if work and pressure that you guys deal with on set. My whole point with this thread was to simply point out that assuming lav tracks are throwaways, and only used as a last resort, and thereby no need to make sure they are properly set up, is a wrong assumption. Having been severely burned by mix tracks, I prefer my editors, given their time constraints, to have the boom be the preferred track when they start their edit. If they run into a situation where the boom is not useable, use the lavs. This way I will absolutely never ever ever run into phasing issues, and be the person blamed for dialog quality issues. If I'm going to get blamed, then I prefer it to be my fault. And, BTW, BCS is sounding really good.

We mix half hour shows in a day. Hopefully this puts things in perspective for some.

2 days for dialog, 3 days for Bg's and hardfx, and a sound designer doing all the main sounds sign elements.

How long do they spend on an episode of Nurse Jacky in post? Watch an episode of 12 monkeys on SyFy. We have to be ready for playback after a day and a half of mixing.

Welcome to our world of unrealistic expectations vs time and budget. By the time we see a show on the dubstage, they are almost over halfway through the series. So talking to the on set team will usually end up effecting the following season. Also, considering the cost of shooting in New York, I doubt you see the type of shows that don't allow the amount if time needed in post, that we see here. Let me tell you about a show I was working on, when the editors were still cutting mainly from the mix track. All through the year, I would have problems in scenes, where the Dialog just didn't sound right. It was a constant battle. Every time the supervising sound editor would go to the raw tracks, he ALWAYS found a better sounding replacement. Either a boom, or a lav. Final episode of the season, and it was just downright atrocious. I fought all the way through the episode, and was getting simply acceptable results. We get to playback. Halfway though the episode the AP had us stop. and asked why everything sounded weird. I asked the Supervising sound editor to recut one of the most offending scenes, straight from the raw tracks. Without doing anything to them at all, everything sounded better, immediately. Guess who lost the show the following season? Not the location sound guy. Not the dialog editor. I did. So, once bitten, twice shy. I won't trust mix tracks ever again. Period.

I found bird man really just Meh.

As a point of reference, in regards to what some might find minor phase issues, that I find objectionable. I have clients who ask me to fix words that even go slightly off axis, resulting in of course a more non direct sounding line, which IS natural in regards to whats going on, on the screen. But they want it to not have any change in the sound of the dialog at all. As I stated earlier, even in cases of natural roomverb that I personally don't have a problem with, because it makes sense for the location, I am asked to minimize the roomverb. And some want to hear every singer syllable, every single ending of a word. Every T, every D. Even when the actor is mumbling. Try boosting the end of a line from a boom 16-20 DB, with all the inherent room noise. That's my world. A lot of my clients don't want natural. They want hyper reality. Oh, and we have to mix all of that to the TV spec in the loudness act. I WISH I could use a single track, push the fader, and having it be great. I do. But that's not the reality on the dubsatge when it comes to TV.

How do you get a boom to be the exact equal same distance from an actors mouth as a Lav to avoid phase issues? I simply can't see that as being possible, most of the time.